If we help someone in need, are we their slaves?

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I think I read this type of argument from egoists.

I don't think they're right. I think there is a difference between helping someone who really needs it, and being taken advantage of by someone who doesn't need anything. Also, it is ultimately up to us to choose, and we are not forced to, thus it does not make us slaves.

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I agree with you. I like to help people as much as I can, but I never consider myself a slave or would I allow myself to become one.

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It is all a matter of a hierarchy of values. If you give up an afternoon golf game, to babysit a friend's kids while she is sick, you are not being a slave. If you are indeed her friend, one less golf game is not as important as helping her out.

If you take the money needed to feed your family and give it to charity, then you are being a slave.

The basic concept is that you do not sacrifice a higher value to a lower.

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Re: If we help someone in need, are we their slaves?
Ray

You make me remember of an old french movie. I think it was from Jean Renoir. An old bum jumps in the river to kill himself and a good citizen saves his life. Then the bum, furious, makes the other responsible for his life. The poor "good samaritan" must take him to his house, feed him, satisfy all his wishes. I think that in the end he throws the bump back in the river.

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That's interesting, Val. It seems that I read somewhere that oriental cultures believe that if one is prevented from suicide, then the savior becomes responsible for that person forever.

Interesting topic, Ray.

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If we help someone in need, are we their slaves?

I'd say no. No matter what.

If I save a childs life at the expence of my ability to walk, then am I a slave to this child? Is this child a slave to me?

No, and no. The choice to help or not to is mine. I could walk away.

In some cultures, when you save a life, you assume responsibility for it in doing so. The argument is that if you hadn't interfered, death would have come, so all life after that moment is a gift from the savior. But this is the complete opposite of the question of the thread...

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It is all a matter of a hierarchy of values. If you give up an afternoon golf game, to babysit a friend's kids while she is sick, you are not being a slave. If you are indeed her friend, one less golf game is not as important as helping her out.

And what values should we have, and how do you justify those values?

If you are a friend to a criminal who is harming (using force, etc) other people, would you do anything to stop him or her? I've heard no's, and their justification for it is that "you shouldn't ask a friend to do anything for you"... What's your opinion on that?

I disagree with them. "Friendship" is not a fixed attribute, and their justification is wrong. The person in the first place shouldn't be harming other people, and you should stop a person from harming other people if you can. That's what I think anyways.

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You make me remember of an old french movie. I think it was from Jean Renoir. An old bum jumps in the river to kill himself and a good citizen saves his life. Then the bum, furious, makes the other responsible for his life. The poor "good samaritan" must take him to his house, feed him, satisfy all his wishes. I think that in the end he throws the bump back in the river.

Interesting movie. In the first case, he's not being taken advantage of, but in the latter part, he didn't need to be taken advantage of. The bum threatens to jump to the river again, but it is not right for the good samaritan to give up to such demands. It's a very complicated issue... Rolling Eyes

Here's a more complicated question: should you hurt anyone else to relieve your pain if that was the only way to do it?

I would say no, but I'm not in a situation of tremendous pain...

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Ray

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Here's a more complicated question: should you hurt anyone else to relieve your pain if that was the only way to do it?

I think it would depend on the kind of "hurt" you are talking about. If I had to kill or seriously hurt someone in order to get rid of my pain, I like to think that I would never do it. But, as you said, I am not in a tremendous pain.

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I think it more likely that egoists rather say that one who gives of themselves to help others are slaves to societal convention and expectation... even then that's an extremist point of view that you're unlikely to find.

Perhaps debate would be more fluid if there were anyone on that side here to talk for it. This is why just posting an absurd argument and saying "hey, don't people think this is silly" isn't really very productive.

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Depends on the circumstances and how you react to it.

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However, if you find that you have been chained up, branded and whipped (and aren't paying for it)... yes, there is a good reason to suspect slavery.

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If anyone here has read Of Human Bondage, I think we might understand a little more about the nature of what ties one person to another, regardless of the circumstances. Very interesting study in human nature.

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It all depends on the person's definition of slave as opposed to the people that will think of him as one. I have the habit of thinking of others and helping anyone no matter how it affects me. This is so like me that when I must attend to my own needs, those people that I'm constantly helping, get offended and call me selfish, yet that is their flaw, not mine. I am not flawed because I think this way, the flawed ones are those who think I must act this way.

Some people would call me a slave because of the way I think, but as long as I don't think of myself as one, them I'm not one, and what they belief is just speculation.

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Eryemil wrote:

This is so like me that when I must attend to my own needs, those people that I'm constantly helping, get offended and call me selfish.

Lol, I know exactly what you're talking about there. Funny how people do that.

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I was just thinking, are we using people? Like when we ask them to do something for us. I would like to think no because you're not sacrificing their needs, dignity, and you're not forcing them. Thoughts?

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Letty, Human nature is a can of worms; no average determination can be identified. Trying to understand "human nature" has too many variables, genetics and environments to consider. It seems only simplistic conclusions can be drawn from any one study or investigation of "human nature."

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C.I. I realize that, my friend, but having some insight into my own actions, I feel that often we look to see if that probability lies in others as well. The idea behind, Maugham's Of Human Bondage, explores the exact thing that we are discussing here. I can truly identify with the main character in that book.

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I'm afraid that's all we can draw on; our own experience/actions and knowledge. We're all guilty of doing that no matter what the topic might be. I know for certain that many of my responses to others on a2k grate at their nerves, because my own experience/actions and opinions differ greatly from theirs. I've been called almost everything negative under the roof, but that's the price we pay to participate in emotion-filled topics.

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Eryemil wrote:

It all depends on the person's definition of slave as opposed to the people that will think of him as one. I have the habit of thinking of others and helping anyone no matter how it affects me.

Do you think that, at minimum, you will gain some sort of benefit by helping others (for example, an emotional benefit)? I'm not suggesting that this somehow invalidates the action or its morality but surely, all actions are motivated by some degree of self-interest. Therefore, how are we then, someone else's "slave"?

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You are right, it makes me feel good being there for people.

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If we help someone in need, are we their slaves?

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