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Social Host Liability

 
 
Smash
 
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 12:52 pm
I hope this hasn't been posted before:

Here is a link to the story:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050217.wscoc0217/BNStory/National/

edit:
Ottawa ?- The country's highest court has agreed to decide whether an Ottawa-area woman can sue the hosts of a New Year's Eve party after a drunken guest left her paralyzed in a car crash.

Zoë Childs was a passenger in a car that was rammed head-on Jan. 1, 1999, by a vehicle driven by Desmond Desormeaux, a self-described alcoholic who had been convicted twice before of impaired driving.

Ms. Childs, then 18, was rendered a paraplegic and her 17-year-old boyfriend Derek Dupré was killed. Mr. Desormeaux was found guilty of several charges, including impaired driving causing death, and sentenced to 10 years in prison.

Ms. Childs, of Kemptville, Ont., filed a $6-million civil suit against the party hosts, Julie Zimmerman and Dwight Courrier, saying they were partly liable for the crash because they let Mr. Desormeaux get behind the wheel to drive home.


The suit was rejected by the lower courts, but the Supreme Court of Canada, in a decision released without comment Thursday, agreed to review the matter.

No date has been set for a hearing.

There was conflicting evidence at trial about how drunk Mr. Desormeaux appeared to be when he left the party, whether the hosts offered to let him stay the night, and other key facts.

Also at issue was whether judges or legislators should decide to what extent party hosts should be responsible for the actions of their guests.

The Ontario Superior Court judge who heard the civil suit in 2002 dismissed the damage claim by Ms. Childs. He said it should be up to the province to determine whether so-called social hosts - as opposed to commercial hosts such as bar owners - are liable for damages.

Ontario Court of Appeal turned Ms. Childs down in 2004 on different legal grounds, saying the hosts were not liable in this case but that others could be held responsible in different circumstances.

"This judgment should not be interpreted to mean that social hosts are immune from liability," Justice Karen Weiler wrote then for the appeal court.

She suggested that the key questions were whether the hosts knew an obviously intoxicated guest was going to drive home and whether they did nothing to prevent it.





This worries me. Not only in terms of what this will do to homeowners insurance (both in terms of cost and possible clauses that will exclude payouts when alcohol is involved in any way), but also in terms of an attack on personal responsibility.

I understand that it is tragic that a young woman was paralyzed and I've love to see her get the payout she deserves from the drunk driver. However, going to homeowners for the money because he was driving illegally and had no insurance seems to be trying to correct the wrong in this individual case in a way that can having chilling repercussions across the country.

Don't get me wrong, you shouldn't let people who come to your home drive home drunk if you can, but the way some courts seem to read the standard of care (such as that Archer case back in the mid 90s at the Ontario CA where the guy was drunk and jumped off a roof despite the warnings/demands of the homeowners to not do so that found the homeowners liable) could end up putting an unreasonable onus on the homeowners. I mean, what qualifies as reasonable attempts to stop? Do you have to call the police on people if you think there is the possibility they might drive drunk? Risk the tort of battery/assault to stop them? Etc....

Anyone have any thoughts?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 1,912 • Replies: 6
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 12:59 pm
I could only see the synopsis without registering, but I agree that the implications are worrisome.
0 Replies
 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 01:02 pm
The synopsis:

Supreme Court to rule on host liability

Canadian Press

Thursday, February 17, 2005

Ottawa ?- The country's highest court has agreed to decide whether an Ottawa-area woman can sue the hosts of a New Year's Eve party after a drunken guest left her paralyzed in a car crash.

Zoë Childs was a passenger in a car that was rammed head-on Jan. 1, 1999, by a vehicle driven by Desmond Desormeaux, a self-described alcoholic who had been convicted twice before of impaired driving.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 09:21 am
I would guess that all states in the US have some form of social host liability, either statutory or common law. I haven't seen any marked decline in personal responsibility as a result of this fact (although personal responsibility is already at a low ebb in this country). What it has done is make many people more aware of their duties and obligations, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad result.
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2005 05:49 am
It's been decided in Australia in the affirmative. It also applies to commercial entities which sell liquor for consumption on the premises. It falls under duty of care and also brings up issues of recklessness on the part of the supplier of liquor. Having said that of course each case is decided on its merits. The broad understanding here is that if someone is full as a boot and you know or should know that they are going to get into a car and drive and regardless you supply them with liquor then watch out.
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Smash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 07:52 pm
Do you know what is considered reasonable in attempting to stop such a sitution?

I guess that's where at least part of my concern lies.

I.E. will you be facing a false imprisonment or battery claim if you have to physically restrain them? Or is it enough to call the cops after they leave.
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 08:06 pm
Smash wrote:
Do you know what is considered reasonable in attempting to stop such a sitution?

I guess that's where at least part of my concern lies.

I.E. will you be facing a false imprisonment or battery claim if you have to physically restrain them? Or is it enough to call the cops after they leave.


This is where it gets complicated. It's difficult - no wait, it's foolhardly - for me to try to give information which crosses jurisdictions and which attempts to cover all situations. I'm not a lawyer but any lawyer will tell you that there are no such things as "cut and dried" or "open and shut" cases. As they say, each case must be decided on its merits. And importantly different jurisdictions take different views and stances on nearly everything.

But there are some common threads.

Speaking from my jurisdiction - and only from my jurisdiction - if you have a duty of care and you discharge that duty of care in good faith and in a reasonable manner you won't be criticised by the courts. But there's only so much you can do. If I have a party at my place and one of my guests gets off his/her face and I know or suspect they are going to try and drive I will do my best to avoid that situation. What's open to me?

I can try to persuade them to stop drinking.
I can take the liquor away from them but no way am I going to get into a brawl with them over it (never hit a drunk, they can fall over and suffer serious or even fatal injuries).
I can tell them they can get off their face but they have to crash at my place.
I can try to persuade them to get a cab home.
I will definitely grab their car keys and hide them from them (surreptitiously of course).
I will try and get through to them that they are being idiotic and that they will get arrested if they try and drive in that state.

In short I will do my best to prevent them from driving under the influence but if in spite of all this they continue to do so then I've done what I can do.
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