Position on the human race

Ray wrote:

The duties and responsibilities we possess is an implication of purposes provided by reason.

Ray.

Please, provide a purpose and the reasoning behind it.

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Yes it is... Purpose is not necessarily a good thing. I could be a killer, motivated by the pained scream of my victims. Do the pleasure I receive from their pain does not motivate me to kill more people? Does it not give me purpose?

No it doesn't. It may "motivate" you, but it is not a purpose. Definition of purpose: "reason,object; design; intention" If you are referring to the latter, then you are right, but I'm referring to the former definition of purpose. A person with a purpose embracing random emotions are subjects to doing something because they are subjected to emotional outburst. They may not have a reason to do something. As a person who have struggled (and is still struggling) with Obsessive-compulsive disorder, a subtle example, I would say that sometimes I walked in a room and out and in again because it doesn't feel right. I was motivated toward doing that you see, but it has no meaningful purpose, and even I don't think it makes sense at all.

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Ray.

Please, provide a purpose and the reasoning behind it.

Why do I have duties and responsibilities? It is because I see that they are people, conscious, rational, and cognitively real. Universality is a part of the rational faculty and thus it would be irrational for me to treat people as objects to be taken advantage of or to have them hurt or their lives taken. Things that are alike should be treated alike (?). This provide me with the understanding that they are people, and also with my empathetical reasoning, I see values within people and understand that it is irrational and thus wrong to harm or kill people. That's the purpose I follow in life, to appreciate life as life is and to not harm people. I may hate a person, but I will not harm or kill the person because that would be irrational.

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Ray, thankyou for answering my request. I appreciate it. (I'll bet you can sense the "But" coming along though, huh?)

Ray wrote:

Why do I have duties and responsibilities?

Yep, that's more or less what I'm asking. (just confirming that this is the right track).

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It is because I see that they are people, conscious, rational, and cognitively real.

Agreed with, on this point.

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Universality is a part of the rational faculty

Accepting that the same consistent laws bind everything could certainly be accepted as a rational precept.

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and thus it would be irrational for me to treat people as objects to be taken advantage of or to have them hurt or their lives taken.

AAAAAAAnnnnnddddd..... you've lost me. Right there. Why? Oh, there's the answer underneath.

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Things that are alike should be treated alike (?).

Nope. Can't agree. My boyfriend is a male with certain traits, yet due to his specific meaning to me he becomes treated a radically different way than others, even an identical twin brother with near-identical personality.

Ones interactions with another become dependant upon their relationship with yourself. The most crucial relationship that can possibilty exist between yourself and others is the difference that occurs in that they are not you.

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This provide me with the understanding that they are people, and also with my empathetical reasoning,

I'd be VERY careful how you combine the words empathy and reason. No problems with how you used it here but just seeing the combination made me cringe.

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I see values within people and understand that it is irrational and thus wrong to harm or kill people.

Irrational? Rationality can provide the understanding that they will react in the same way as another under similar circumstances. Your choice on how to react to said understanding is entirely your own and only rational so far as your actions lead to your desired outcome.

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That's the purpose I follow in life, to appreciate life as life is and to not harm people.

A fine and wonderful purpose... but why is it irrational to harm another? Would it be irrational to cause me to experience pain? If so, why?

(specific examples help a great deal)... here one is. You would experience great benefit from harming me, why would you turn down this benefit in order to not harm me? (let's say specifically that you'd be breaking my leg and cutting off my index finger, however if you didn't you personally would get a broken leg through a complex and intricate set of circumstances that can not be bypassed).

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I may hate a person, but I will not harm or kill the person because that would be irrational.

As above, but why would that be irrational?

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I'm one of those annoying people who have a position on almost anything, whether he knows much about it or not - but I dont think I ever had a position on "the human race".

Rise above the trifles, the guy said, start thinking big! But I'm more like, lose the abstractions - start dealing with reality. Its what you get after working for four years for my boss I guess.

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nimh wrote:

Rise above the trifles, the guy said, start thinking big! But I'm more like, lose the abstractions - start dealing with reality. Its what you get after working for four years for my boss I guess.

Useful for workers... yes.
Useful for artists... not so much.

<shrug>

Different career paths, different modes of thought.

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Oh Ray, my post before made a mistake, the hypothetical was supposed to have small suffering for me saving you from big suffering. I had it vice versa, I think. Sorry.

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nimh, We've had our share of disagreements, but I still enjoy over 90 percent of your posts. Wink

I'm probably also over-opinionated about subjects I know very little, but I enjoy mixing it up a bit.

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Didnt mean to cause offence, antibuddha.

And i think its more about temperament than career path, actually. In art, too, i prefer those who "show small but feel deep" over those who propose grand designs of the mind ... the "small" take of the individual experience often seems more meaningful to me, in the end, more lasting, than the elaborate schemes of those who want to tell me about What Life Is All About ...

But with that, I'm firmly off-topic.

<tips hat to the Cicerone>

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nimh wrote:

Didnt mean to cause offence, antibuddha.

Never.

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(I'll bet you can sense the "But" coming along though, huh?)

Don't worry, I've braced myself. Smile

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Nope. Can't agree. My boyfriend is a male with certain traits, yet due to his specific meaning to me he becomes treated a radically different way than others, even an identical twin brother with near-identical personality.

Ones interactions with another become dependant upon their relationship with yourself. The most crucial relationship that can possibilty exist between yourself and others is the difference that occurs in that they are not you.

Not exactly what I meant. We're different, but we're similar in that we possess a common trait, that is, we exist cognitively. Consciousness whether it arises in my body or yours is a universal that is to be treated with the same respect throughout. That does not mean that you can't develop a closer relationship with certain people than others, but that respecting their cognitive existence means that you don't treat them as object, that is, don't take advantage of them. I may think that a person's traits is better than another person, but I still respect their conscious being.

Well that's about it for now, I appreciate your feedback.

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Ray wrote:

Consciousness whether it arises in my body or yours is a universal that is to be treated with the same respect throughout.

Look, I'm in the tough position where yes I agree with you... BUT it's not a logical claim. It's an emotive one, we're driven by empathy and instinct to respect those things we can relate to, i.e. other humans. It's not a logically justified decision at all.

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Well that's about it for now, I appreciate your feedback.

Not a problem. Going out for about 3 days now so you can expect a long delay before any further response from me.

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Look, I'm in the tough position where yes I agree with you... BUT it's not a logical claim. It's an emotive one, we're driven by empathy and instinct to respect those things we can relate to, i.e. other humans. It's not a logically justified decision at all.

Somewhat true. Emotions can get mixed up at times though. I still think that respect can be backed up logically and that it has a first principle truth to it. I'm not sure if you could categorize empathy as an emotion anyways.

Off for the spring break.

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