this just kills me

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The Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that the Constitution forbids the execution of killers who were under 18 when they committed their crimes, ending a practice used in 19 states. The 5-4 decision throws out the death sentences of about 70 juvenile murderers and bars states from seeking to execute minors for future crimes. The executions, the court said, were unconstitutionally cruel. It was the second major defeat at the high court in three years for supporters of the death penalty. Justices in 2002 banned the execution of the mentally retarded, also citing the Constitution's Eighth Amendment ban on cruel and unusual punishments.

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Third thread on this one!!!

As I said on one of the others - THE US WAS EXECUTING JUVENILES????!!!!!!

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Don't see how you missed the thread Supreme Court strikes down death penalty for juveniles...

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Stupid is as stupid does. How is a 16 year old killer different from an 18 year old killer? I'm sorry, you take someone's life in a criminal act and you pay for it justly. This ruling is wrong. We have way, way too many gang bangers who are going to look at this as a green light for murder.

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cjhsa, why not just drop the age down to say 6 then?

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There are simple psychological tests than can determine intent. I think that's all that matters.

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Ah good solution, leave the judgement up to psychologists. Then we won't need any courts of law at all. "Your honor, we can prove this 6 year old had intent" "Hang him, hang him high" the Judge orders, this is america and we don't abide no 6 year old with intent.

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cjhsa wrote:

We have way, way too many gang bangers who are going to look at this as a green light for murder.

Read my reply to this here (the 3rd post I made in that thread).

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cjhsa wrote:

Stupid is as stupid does. How is a 16 year old killer different from an 18 year old killer?

Well, if there's no difference between a 16-year-old and an 18-year-old then you're ok with lowering the voting and tobacco ages? Statutory rape laws?

The age of adulthood is 18. Children do not have the same appreciation for the results of their actions as, it is presumed, adults do.

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The basis for the supreme courts ruling was the Constitution's Eighth Amendment ban on cruel and unusual punishments. IMO this is another instance where the courts not the legislators make the laws of the land.

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Cruel and unusual - what did the vic do?

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au1929 wrote:

The basis for the supreme courts ruling was the Constitution's Eighth Amendment ban on cruel and unusual punishments. IMO this is another instance where the courts not the legislators make the laws of the land.

Indeed, it does appear that way. Who's to say that executing somebody is not cruel and unusal after age X? That job (a tough one) goes to the Supreme Court, whose job is to interpret the Constitution. I think that you simply cannot set an age limit on such things, as the rate of maturity varies from person to person.

cjhsa wrote:

Cruel and unusual - what did the vic do?

The punishment is not justified by the crime. Saying "He did it, so I can do it to him" is not fair. "Eye for an eye" is also an unjust reason.

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00 Agent Kid
There is not a thing wrong with an "eye for an eye" when it is justified.

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au1929 wrote:

00 Agent Kid
There is not a thing wrong with an "eye for an eye" when it is justified.

How do you justify taking another life, though? More importantly: What if the convicted man was innocent? If you get fined, the government can give you your money back. If you're put in jail, you are releaseed and are compensated by the government for how long you spent there. If they take your life away, they can't give that back. What's done is done.

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OK, how about this. You kill one of my kids and you're a juvi. I say lock you up in a room with me, a baseball bat, and my Glock and we'll see how things work out.

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To us who oppose the death penalty, this is just one step in the right direction.

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Cruel and Unusual punishment were the words the lunatic left were using about making arab terrorists wear womens panties on their heads...

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00 Agent Kid wrote:

Indeed, it does appear that way. Who's to say that executing somebody is not cruel and unusal after age X? That job (a tough one) goes to the Supreme Court, whose job is to interpret the Constitution. I think that you simply cannot set an age limit on such things, as the rate of maturity varies from person to person.

Maturity rate would hardly play a diecent role in determining wether or not the 6 yr old who shot another 6yr old for taking a toy , should be killed.
The intent was there, even thought out.. but would the maturity rate ida apply to that scenerio?

I didnt even realize that kids were able to be put to death.
Now, if the situation is a 16-18 yr old I think it is more argueable that they should be seen as an adult in the eyes of the court, but put to death?
That blows my mind.

00 Agent Kid wrote:

"Eye for an eye" is also an unjust reason.

So true.
Unfortunatly there are people who will argue that point as well. That is, until it is thier child who is facing the death penalty.

My question is , what happens to kids who murder? Are they released at midnight on thier 18th birthday with all of the legal documents sealed as they are supposed to be when you reach legal age? Are they treated any diffrent? Can that charge of murder carry over in thier lives and be referred to if they do it again?

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00 Agent

Quote:

How do you justify taking another life, though? More importantly: What if the convicted man was innocent

Same old argument. What if he were innocent. The rules under which capital punishment are applied may need to be strengthened to assure that will not happen. However, there are many instances where there is no question of guilt. In those instances IMO capital punishment is justified. How do I justify the taking of a life? How do you justify allowing a murderer to live out his years?

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au1929 wrote:

Same old argument. What if he were innocent. The rules under which capital punishment are applied may need to be strengthened to assure that will not happen.

It's that easy, is it?

Quote:

However, there are many instances where there is no question of guilt. In those instances IMO capital punishment is justified. How do I justify the taking of a life? How do you justify allowing a murderer to live out his years?

Quite easily. I unequivocally condemn murder, whether it be perpetrated by individuals, groups or nation states. If the purpose of capital punishment is to deter future murders, it is bound to fail as it has failed in the past. If the purpose is based on the primal instinct of revenge, it is not something we as humans should be proud of. By killing another person, what are we fighting to protect? And in the process, do we not become that which we execrate? If killing is the only answer, we have lost sight of the question.

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this just kills me

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