It appears to be a winner in the polls, Wilso.
(To think that just a few years ago we all thought Pauline Hanson was extreme! Pretty tame stuff compared to what's actually happening now.
)
They're conservatives. That explains it all. Conservative=scum!
On the assumption that you are referring to the 1989 Tiananmen crackdown (and I apologise if such assumption is incorrect) please allow me to highlight some significant points:
- the crackdown was far more different and extreme to Mr Chen's current claims - in 1989, the students had almost gotten to the extent of overthrow of the government. Had they succeeded, (ie, had the gov continued to remain inactive) china would have drowned into a state of anarchy. The gov, at that critical moment was, very much forced to the extent and the extreme. I do not justify their actions, but merely explain them.
- in 2005 and Mr Chen however, it is guaranteed that China will not put him as number one on the most wanted list as they had done Wang Dan - all Mr Chen has done is:
o defend Falongong
o and, as unfounded his claims are at the moment, allege, merely allege but never affirmatively establish spying claims in Australia by the Chinese.
- I point out also that 1989 is almost 20 years ago in history - 16 years to be exact. China now has changed very much - one example is their attitude towards the recent protests in HK, where the people of the HK SAR (special administration region) were protesting against the then chief executive Tung Chee Hwa [whom they had legally voted for themselves, with China's full approval of their right to vote], demanding his resignation. China's government did not "treat these "dissenters"" in any way other than to let them protest, and meanwhile hold talks with HK SAR government for possible solutions and alternatives. Tung eventually stepped down and the Chinese gov welcomed his successor Donald Tsung - the process was peaceful and friendly and there are no longer protests being held.
By saying "we all know what china does to dissentersÂ…" I believe that you may have fallen into the trap (maybe unconsciously) of defining a country and its policy in its present state by its past. On such reasoning, the Chinese people would be fully justified (but also fully guilty) in claiming that the Australian government continues to this day, to commit stolen generation crimes, they continue to take children away from their families and they continue to aim to eradicate the whole aboriginal race - which you and I both know such does not occur anymore, although, unfortunately such things did happen only not so long ago.
Of course the Chinese do not claim such; please note the above is merely a parallel hypothetical analogy.
As for falongong "dissenters" I will try to locate a press report I read a few weeks ago about them in America. Briefly, a Chinese reporter who had reported some of Falongong's own "dark issues" was in America, attending Yale University's graduation ceremony where his daughter was graduating. A falongong member saw him and recognised him and immediately brought legal action against the reporter for a number of crimes, I believe among them issues similar to defamation etc. The reporter eventually had to argue American laws of free speech as defence. It is quite ironic that Falongong advocate for issues such as these, but they sue those who rely on them, where the reliance results in criticism of Falongong, but never where reliance results in benefiting Falongong. I'm sorry; I do not have the URL but will try to find it for you.
msolga wrote:pragmatic
... um, I wouldn't feel too comfortable with Madam Fu's guarantees, myself .... given that we know what we know about what happens to dissenters in China.
Please, refer to my last recent post. I forgot to quote you when I was putting it up. My apologies for any confusion.
pragmatic
No, I was not referring to the Tiananmen crackdown at all. (Though, heaven knows, the reaction from the Chinese government in that instance was appalling.) I am by no means an expert on the Chinese government affairs & I keep abreast of local & international political events via the ABC, the AGE & other sources on the internet. I do not subscribe to the theories of shock jocks. Just 5 minutes ago, on Virginia Trioli's program on Melbourne ABC radio, I heard a Monash University academic with particular expertise on China & Asia talk about Mr Chen's situation. Given that Mr Chen has revealed Chinese government secrets he could well be in danger if he does return to China. There were a number of possibilities mentioned: Re-education camp right through to the possibility of the death penalty. Who knows what will actually happen if Mr Chen does agree to return to China? But I can perfectly understand why he doesn't want to put himself in that position. And as I said before, I'm angry at my government for not treating his appeal for asylum with more respect. One thing I have no doubt about is that political dissent is not encouraged or tolerated by the Chinese government.
Third Chinese man backs countrymen's claims
June 10, 2005 - 12:20AM/SMH
A Chinese refugee in Australia, who says he saw a dissident tortured to death, can confirm the claims by two of his countrymen that China persecutes its citizens and spies on them, his lawyer says.
Bernard Collaery, a prominent lawyer in Canberra, has detailed the story of an unnamed man who fled to Australia after questioning the torture of dissidents by Chinese security forces.... <cont.>
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Third-Chinese-man-backs-countrymens-claims/2005/06/09/1118123964447.html?oneclick=true
Doubts on legality of Chen treatment
By Tom Allard and Joseph Kerr
June 11, 2005/SMH
The Minister for Foreign Affairs, Alexander Downer, will face pressure in Parliament next week over possible breaches of immigration regulations in dealing with the Chinese diplomat Chen Yonglin's defection attempt.
Mr Downer rejected Mr Chen's bid for political asylum without interviewing him, but little is known about his role in the affair. Some immigration lawyers and opposition parties are concerned about whether Mr Downer approached the Chinese embassy before deciding on Mr Chen's case.... <cont>
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Doubts-on-legality-of-Chen-treatment/2005/06/10/1118347602419.html
Yeah, what's the problem with these troublesome Liberal backbenchers carrying on about "illegals" in detention? :wink:
Uh oh! 
Palmer's immigration report delayed
June 15, 2005 - 8:00PM/SMH
A report by former federal police chief Mick Palmer from a closed-door inquiry into immigration blunders will be delayed by a fortnight and there is no guarantee it will ever be made public.... <cont>
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Palmers-immigration-report-delayed/2005/06/15/1118645865158.html?oneclick=true
.....With Parliament rising for the winter break at the end of next week, the Government will not face parliamentary questioning on the politically sensitive report until August.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200506/s1393060.htm
msolga wrote:What do YOU think, pragmatic?
I declare it disgusting and sick that such things even occur.
Howard has absorbed Georgiou and the nascent rebels. Predictable. But perhaps, just perhaps, the average person in the street is uneasy.
goodfielder wrote:Howard has absorbed Georgiou and the nascent rebels. Predictable. But perhaps, just perhaps, the average person in the street is uneasy.
Uneasy about what. Some innocent human beings being let out of their cages, or that there's at least one member of the liberal party who deserves to be called a member of the human race?
Wilso wrote:goodfielder wrote:Howard has absorbed Georgiou and the nascent rebels. Predictable. But perhaps, just perhaps, the average person in the street is uneasy.
Uneasy about what. Some innocent human beings being let out of their cages, or that there's at least one member of the liberal party who deserves to be called a member of the human race?
Good point. I need to clarify it. I think (hope) that people are beginning to understand what the Howard government has done and is continuing to do. I hope that people are seeing them for what they are. I hope people are beginning to understand that if Howard and his coterie have yet another term in office that we will become more like Bush's America. I hope that Australians reject the Aussie-Gulags.
Yes, indeed.
High time, too.
