parados..........who are you? You're hilarious.
More tomorrow. Tonight......I have to sleep.
However, I'll tell you. I have downloaded Frank Luntz's playbook. We can learn how to manipulate the public by using the right words.........forget ideas, just use the right words.
More practice tomorrow.
Good examples, Foxfyre, both of them. Okay, liberals, what Foxfyre is graciously pointing out is tactic number something or other which is to proclaim that we have no ideas, no strategy and no plans for the weekend, never mind the nation. Oh, and put it in cartoons so even a conservative god loving gun toting gay hating redneck can understand it. Or at least pretend that he does.
I did prefer the days before conservatives got their ideas, remember back then? When liberals wanted to find some way to racial equality in this country, conservatives didn't offer ideas, they just stood in doorways or waved axhandles or sulked. When liberals proposed Voting Rights Protection, Workmen's Compensation, Medicare-Medicaid, Social Security,
Safety Protections in the Workplace and other elements of the social contract between this country's government and it's people, conservatives just complained or whined about how people ought to be able to get by on their own, I guess because their mothers didn't need Medicaid and they never worked a job where breathing the air could kill you.
Anyway, we made a mistake. We asked conservatives what ideas they had and they came up with some doozies: deregulation of just about every industry you can think of, Airlines (that's been a good one, yeah, yeah, I know 9-11), Telecommunications (getting down to just one phone company has been a struggle and there are still about nine separate owners of tv/cable systems...) Investment Banking (Proving the adage if you give them an inch... is there anything sadder to see than a guy in a good suit wearing handcuffs) and ::: the best solution to any problem is to cut taxes. There is not time to go on here.
My favorite conservative ideas are still the Savings and Loans Can-you-say-Steal-a-Billion Idea, The Balanced Budget Amendment (replaced today with the Amendment to Save Gays from the Agony of Marriage Act. I think that's what it's called.) and now, the I-didn't-know-about-401ks and IRAs-so-I-think-there-should-be-some-kind-of-Social-Security-Savings-Plan. Maybe they could call it an IRA or a 401k, if no one is using those terms. Or maybe Social Security, I don't know.
Maybe we should go back to the conservatives and say "Lookit, you got yourself elected, good for you, but you said you were for less government not more, so could you stop with the ideas for awhile and just relax, maybe look out the window or something, but stop thinking you've got to come up with some ideas because you don't really, we're sorry you got that impression. Besides the ones you do come up with stink on ice."
Joe(Please don't ask them for any more help)Nation
spendius wrote:I'm surprised at Bernie's post.
I thought he'd been hatched by the heat of the sun.
Sun! I was dispatched here during a rare alignment of dark celestial bodies.
hey Joe.......send me a pm and tell me again, where is that store, the one where you hang out?
Quote:Sun! I was dispatched here during a rare alignment of dark celestial bodies.
And he can prove it by the little horns on his little head.
Oh, oh, sorry.......I've received a protest.
He can prove it by the huge horns on his big head.
Now Joe's example is excellent. But we can't give it a number. It's far too intricate and thought provoking. Too complicated, if you will.......
And actually, while it was very entertaining and fun...it won't work with conservatives for the obvious (only to liberals) reason. I think we better stick to the numbered methods......except of course for much needed entertainment.
hey sp
Lola's post above got me wondering. What do we presume we might know about satan? One perhaps ought to be hesitant in attempting to improve upon Descartes' genius in the matter, but somebody has to break new ground. I've established - and I'm confident you'll agree - that satan can be identified as the world's first disgruntled former employee. But that's a simple one. Here's one tougher, and it relates to Lola's horn size thing. My first take was that she was guilty of paternalism, but I quickly realized that was the wrong end of the horn altogether. Maternalism is the thing. And that got me thinking about the relationship dynamics between satan and his mother. That's a dangerous topic with a freudian hanging about, but I think a couple of polymaths might make some headway even while dodging the Oedipal flack bound to rise up from the terrain we buzz above.
Sorry, I forgot we were numbering these for the conservatives:
Tactic number ______ :Before your opponent offers any ideas make the claim that he has none. Then, no matter he says, you say "See, just more negativity."
Joe(Put a cork in them first)Nation
Joe Nation wrote:Sorry, I forgot we were numbering these for the conservatives:
Tactic number ______ :Before your opponent offers any ideas make the claim that he has none. Then, no matter he says, you say "See, just more negativity."
Joe(Put a cork in them first)Nation
That one does indeed deserve a number of it's own. But I've lost count. And it's entirely original too. We must be up to # 9 or 10 by now, but Dys has claimed numbers 9 and 10 on another thread......so not to be confusing, we'll call it number 13
good. If I was into numeralogy I'd be horrified but since I not, good.
I mean I am good, not not good or actually not not good but really good, well, not really that good but good enough, but that is probably not the same in this context as it would be if we were discusing morality, which I guess we are because at some point we have to decide whether if it's neccessary to lie to gain power whether or not, being good and not not good, if we can.
Joe(I'm going to take a breath now.) Nation
Morality? What's that. We're just going to have to decide what works and do it......
However, desiring as you seem to, to be not not good, I suppose we can just rationalize it as practicality. Dumbing down, as Rovey Dovey does it, is sometimes necessary, but not immoral.
Just for clarity's sake, I've claimed # 10 on this thread ("
What you just said makes absolutely no sense.") and #11 on another thread ("
)
I already knew that, Tico.....
<whistling as I go>
and well done too.
Well would the number assigned to Joe's offering here apply to:
1) Conservatives - Let's help make Iraq a democracy. (Liberals - no.)
2) Conservatives - Let's reform the education system by giving parents more opportunity to send their kids to better schools. (Liberals - no.)
3) Conservatives - Let's reform social security by letting people have more control over their government confiscated retirement funds. (Liberals - no.)
4) Conservatives - Let's reform health care by giving people medical savings accounts and therefore more control over medical costs. (Liberals - no.)
5) Conservatives - Let's fix a lot of things with some much needed tort reform and reining in of the kinds of litigation that benefits only the trial lawyers. (Liberals - no.)
I think the numbering system is excellent. But we may have to redefine conservative and liberal.
Foxfyre, it's "frivolous lawsuit abuse reform", not tort reform...
"Personal injury lawyer", not trial lawyer...
Didn't you read your Luntz handout? :wink:
Oh Geez, McG I'm sorry. I've been getting rapped all over the place for being "too PC" (according to some) and un-PC according to others. And you caught me.
It's ok, I just don't want to see you get your RWC card revoked.
In fairness to Joe, I should admit that the liberals have said they do have a plan for all these things and will explain it as soon as John Kerry is elected president.
[/Quote] Well would the number assigned to Joe's offering here apply to:
1) Conservatives - Let's help make Iraq a democracy. (Liberals - no.)
2) Conservatives - Let's reform the education system by giving parents more opportunity to send their kids to better schools. (Liberals - no.)
3) Conservatives - Let's reform social security by letting people have more control over their government confiscated retirement funds. (Liberals - no.)
4) Conservatives - Let's reform health care by giving people medical savings accounts and therefore more control over medical costs. (Liberals - no.)
5) Conservatives - Let's fix a lot of things with some much needed tort reform and reining in of the kinds of litigation that benefits only the trial lawyers. (Liberals - no.)
I think the numbering system is excellent. But we may have to redefine conservative and liberal.
Quote:
Foxfyre has brought up another interesting point about discussions and tactics. Lets see it from the opposite side.
1.) Conservative - Let's help make Iraq a democracy. Liberal - no <--- what the conservative heard.
what the liberal really said. ---> No, that isn't the original reason you gave for going to Iraq. You can't force democracy on someone at the point of a gun. It has never worked in the entire history of the world. It isn't going to happen now. I think we can all agree that Iraq would be better if it was a democracy but your way is going to be too costly in lives and money and will probably fail. Lets find a better alternative. I suggest we continue to inspect Iraq as we are presently doing and work to strengthen........etc, etc.
Refusing to agree is not a lack of discussion. Nor is it a lack of ideas. Refusing to listen to the other side IS the problem.
If you don't want to listen to the problems with your plan then you WILL fail 90% of the time. It is only through listening to 'reasonable' criticism that you can make your plan better or realize that there is a better way.
Oops, I guess that would be negative number for this one. (Negative infinity and beyond) Reason has no place in this thread. If anyone really wanted to discuss the issues of the 4 topics Foxfyre brought up, I will be glad to. But I realize it isn't going to happen here, nor will it happen in Congress. I'm right and you're wrong makes the world stop and sometimes I do want to get off.
