Liberals - Practice Conservative Argument Techniques

Zane wrote:

Lash wrote:
Principle 1-- Be on the right side of the issue.

Principle 2-- State facts, not horseshit.

I'll stop. None of you have ever made it past #1.

This is truly pathetic. But apropo.

So this is Lash? You sent me a private message. I didn't know who you were. Still don't. I don't have pm reply privileges yet. Not that I necessarily would, to yours.

Well. This is indeed a good lesson. I thank you for it.

I do like to send welcoming, or friendly PMs to most new people who hang around for more than a few days--especially if they say something I think is funny or thought provoking--

I am quite frequently on the opposing side of most people here, as I am in the political minority-but though I may be quite vocal in my political views, I have great affection for several liberal posters, and very nice PM relationships. Of course, it doesn't always work out like that.

I definitely owe you, and myself, quite a sincere apology. I would never in any circumstances PM someone, who would in any circumstances speak about it on the public forum. I have obviously become too optimistic, and careless in my choices. Please ignore the PM, and rest assured you won't suffer a repeat.

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Lash wrote:

Zane wrote:
Lash wrote:
Principle 1-- Be on the right side of the issue.

Principle 2-- State facts, not horseshit.

I'll stop. None of you have ever made it past #1.

This is truly pathetic. But apropo.

So this is Lash? You sent me a private message. I didn't know who you were. Still don't. I don't have pm reply privileges yet. Not that I necessarily would, to yours.

Well. This is indeed a good lesson. I thank you for it.

I do like to send welcoming, or friendly PMs to most new people who hang around for more than a few days--especially if they say something I think is funny or thought provoking--

I am quite frequently on the opposing side of most people here, as I am in the political minority-but though I may be quite vocal in my political views, I have great affection for several liberal posters, and very nice PM relationships. Of course, it doesn't always work out like that.

I definitely owe you, and myself, quite a sincere apology. I would never in any circumstances PM someone, who would in any circumstances speak about it on the public forum. I have obviously become too optimistic, and careless in my choices. Please ignore the PM, and rest assured you won't suffer a repeat.

<gasp>

Affection for liberals???!!! Am I to understand you attempted to covertly communicate with .... the enemy????

I do hope this little episode has taught you a lesson .......

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Ticomaya wrote:

<gasp>

Affection for liberals???!!! Am I to understand you attempted to covertly communicate with .... the enemy????

I do hope this little episode has taught you a lesson .......

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Well, I can see we're all here now. So let's get some serious practicing done......oh, I see you've all been doing your class work while I've been away. It will take me a little time to grade all these entries. At first glance they all look most excellent.

Back when I've had time to read all your work more throughly. See y'all soon.

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Lash wrote:

Well. This is indeed a good lesson. I thank you for it.

I do like to send welcoming, or friendly PMs to most new people who hang around for more than a few days--especially if they say something I think is funny or thought provoking--

I am quite frequently on the opposing side of most people here, as I am in the political minority-but though I may be quite vocal in my political views, I have great affection for several liberal posters, and very nice PM relationships. Of course, it doesn't always work out like that.

I definitely owe you, and myself, quite a sincere apology. I would never in any circumstances PM someone, who would in any circumstances speak about it on the public forum. I have obviously become too optimistic, and careless in my choices. Please ignore the PM, and rest assured you won't suffer a repeat.

This is very disingenuous of you, Lash.
1. You sent me a pm; I have no idea who you are as we've never shared a conversation.
2. You ask me questions in the private message, and then state that you know I can't answer the questions via pm.
3. I do a search for your name, find your most recent post.

I don't think I've betrayed your privacy any more than you've invaded mine. At any rate, this is the only private message I've gotten from someone I've never exchanged words with, and certainly the only message I ever got where the person asks questions and then tells me they know I can't answer those questions in pm.

Now, I'm stepping away from this thread so as not to derail it further.

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Tico--

I know. Chummed up with some from the enemy camp.... You see how I've paid, ... The horror.....the horror....

Have the liberals learnt to argue like conservatives yet?

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we're a workin on it, Lash......we're a workin, ain't we guys?

But I think I'll practice tomorrow........a woman's work is never done............

The niiiiiight they drove ole Dixie down, and all the people were sangin........laaaaa la-la-la-la-laaaa......la la le-la le-la -la la la

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My favorite conservative gambit is when they propose a change stating one reason for it while seeking a completely different final result, as when they speak about investments accounts for Social Security when the actual object is to dismantle the whole system, or passing massive tax cuts for the wealthy while purporting to encourage economic growth while the objective is to shore up the conservative base.

My second favorite is what I call the Slip Tie. You proclaim your angry indignation over some hot button topic that you know in reality is meaningless: The Pledge of Allegiance, for example, or gay marriage, or Senator Kerry's signing of a Form 180, or anything having to do with gun control and the big one, abortion, then after the elections are over you do nothing about of any of them unless you are stupid enough to sign onto something called the anti- Partial Birth Abortion blah blah blah. It's a slip tie because you tie your opponent down while he or she tries to find some moderate middle while all the time you could give a big ratsass. All the huffing and puffing (see Limbaugh, O'Reilly and Hannity for excellent examples of both puffing and huffing) is to get Mr and Mrs Topeka Kansas exercised enough about something to go vote, then the hell with them.

The last tactic on my short list is Red Telephone. Anytime your domestic policy seems to be going to hell, pick up the telephone and yell NATIONAL SECURITY. If there's corporate scandals unraveling on Wall Street, you start talking about the threat from Korean ICBM's, not that there are any, you just start talking about them as if there were some. If that little con game you've got going about changing Social Security seems to be getting stuck up to the hubs, yell something about the Syrians (jesus, the Syrians, why don't we pick on the Angolans or the Sudanese?) or if some little prick in the press brings up the fact that the nation's chemical plants are just as vunerable as they were on 9-12, you yell NATIONAL SECURITY, oops, maybe not for that one.

Anyways, those are my three. I glad I was able to think of a cute name for the last two, I tried to think of one for the first one but I can't think of another way to say lying.

Joe(there's more to this guy than meets the eye)Nation

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my least favorite, but most encountered is;

you are discussing something from the non-conservative pov. you mention regarding a conservative figure's actions, which as a non-conservative you most likely disagree. rather than address the said figure's action, even if only to mount a defense, what you get is "oh yeah ?? well what about (fill in with a non-conservative figure's name here) ?!?!???

mr. donkey; "hey! how bout that harken stock thing that's goin' 'round about dubya "??

mr. elephant; "oh yeah ?? well what about clintler and hitlery and whitewaterrrrr ?? huhhh?? what about travelgate ?? huh?? huh?? and what about the cigar and black dress ?? huh??? you liberals are unpatriotic and you certainly don't support the troops ! now i'm so pissed off i can't talk to you anymore !!"

mr. donkey; "uhhh... what were we talkin' about again ?"

mr. elephant; "yeah, that's what i thought, your memory is shot because you, hah(!), didn't inhale when you were out there hating america with slick willie". "you liberals are pathet-ticccc" !

Laughing

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Joe Nation, we can call the first one the bait and switch. Did we already cover the "label and dismiss? Maybe that was number 2.

Tico, you know you love us, that's why you can't stand to be away from us.

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Pot-Kettle-Black ... all the way around and back again. Its only noticeable if the other guy does it - and, then, of course, its reprehensible and characteristic of the other guy's low tactics.

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We've conceded that both conservatives and liberals use these tactics. But conservatives are better at it, so we are practicing.

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FreeDuck wrote:

But conservatives are better at it, so we are practicing.

Pretty concretely makes my point.

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timberlandko wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:
But conservatives are better at it, so we are practicing.

Pretty concretely makes my point.

no, really it doesn't timber. when people open a debate with me, let's say about bill clinton and all of the yada yada about how "he lied under oath to congress". i don't respond with "oh yeah ? well what about oliver north? huh ? huh? and what about reagan ? "i don't recall", he says. hah! huh?huh? HUH??? "

recognizing that an opposing debate team is more adroit than you in tactics and then practicing those tactics to meet on a level field has nothing to do with pots and kettles. or skillets for that matter.

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I appreciate your take, DTOM (and a good evenin' to ya - hope all is well with ya - haven't taken the opportunity to chat w/you recently). I appreciate it, but I don't accept or endorse it. Quite the contrary. I have no doubt you'll not endorse my take that your comment serves quite well in the interest of confirmin' and reinforcin' my original point in this little digression.

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timberlandko wrote:

I appreciate your take, DTOM (and a good evenin' to ya - hope all is well with ya - haven't taken the opportunity to chat w/you recently). I appreciate it, but I don't accept or endorse it. Quite the contrary. I have no doubt you'll not endorse my take that your comment serves quite well in the interest of confirmin' and reinforcin' my original point in this little digression.

wwwwhhhhaaaattttttttt ??????

doin' okay, timber. a little waterlogged, but okay. hahaha. thanks for askin'. ya got your warmies on up that way i'll bet. wanna trade ??

hmmm... well what i was saying was that the scenario that i portrayed is what i don't do. (welll... almost never... :wink: ). but in pointing that out, you actually lured me into doing it. oh, crap... Embarrassed

bet you are an excellant chess player, timber. but i still stand by my comments. and learning the ins and outs of the opposing team is just good sense, is it not?

since it's not raining cats, dogs and possums (yup. we got 'em here) tonight, guess i'll turn in instead of standing out on the patio in my robe shining the flashlight on our hill and sandbags...

take care bud; dtom

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The rainy season there can be inconvenient in the extreme, I know, DTOM ... I was livin' in The Bay Area in the late '70s -early '80s - the '70s drought ended abrubptly, and I recall standin' on my balcony durin' an astounding, protracted downpour, watchin in dismayed disbelief as my brand new Mustang 5.0, embedded within a huge clump of assorted debris and vegetation washed from the hillside above, proceeded in stately, inexorable fashion down the street on which it had been parked. It came to rest a couple blocks downslope, wedged against a sturdy traffic lamp standard. Somehow, there was very little damage.

Its chilly here - upper-single-digits at the moment, but thats a lot better than the 35 below we had here a few weeks ago. Got a little house damage (frozen pipes in the basement) from that.

Great time of year, though - the eagles and the hawks are doin' their spectacular matin' flights, the forrest critters are venturin' out into the open fields more and more, and its just about time to set the sap buckets on the maples.

Be well ... and do whatchya can to stay dry.

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Terrific thread! I'm going to have to read it from the start again, though ... been a bit distracted.

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What we liberals lack is the ability to make outrageous statements (see the recent USA Next ad which depicts the AARP as both anti-US Soldier and --get ready--- pro-gay marriage) and then sit blithely by as if any of it were true, replying to criticism by saying "They can run, but they cannot hide." Run from what? Uh.

We are in a street fight here in America.

gotta go

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The thing of it is, we on the dark left want desperately to make that evolved journey over to the shining right. Sure, some of you were born over there (how lucky!) but others of you (Progressive Reactionaries - the PR party! We want in!) started out in leftland then moved oh so gracefully south on the warm winds of christ's breath. It should be easy, the path well-trod by illuminaries like Irving Kristol and finn and Benito Mussolini and the State of Texas. Perhaps if we model you guys we will become like you.

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Liberals - Practice Conservative Argument Techniques

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