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Liberals - Practice Conservative Argument Techniques

 
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 02:05 am
Lola wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
I am against intentionally killing anyone at any age Parados.


Do you believe in war? Do you believe in capital punishment? Do you believe in the need for self defense?


sorry lola... oopps. i shoulda read "that next post"... Embarrassed
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 02:07 am
Lash wrote:
Morning After Pill would do well in most cases.

Why wait and kill a baby?


i agree with you lash. but unfortunately, most of the "no-choice" people are all for banning that as well.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 04:26 am
Ticomaya wrote:
JTT: Here's an idea ... why not post a list of all the things about the US, or things it has done in the past, which you detest. Sort of a, "Why I Hate the United States" list. That would be real helpful, don't you think? You know you want to ......


There's not enough room on this site, Tico.

What number has rocketing off on tangents been given?

What number has the specific tangent "you hate the USA" been given? It is a popular RW theme, isn't it?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 05:23 am
more christian ideals
Yet more christian ideals. No wonder they couldn't find any WMDs in Iraq; they were looking in the wrong country. Try Kansas, or New Mexico or Alabama.

========================

http://www.alternet.org/story/21358/

Nuclear Terror at Home

By Noam Chomsky, Foreign Policy in Focus.


There's a document called "The Essentials of Post Cold War Deterrence" that was released during the Clinton years by the Strategic Command, which is in charge of nuclear weapons. It's one of the most horrifying documents I've ever read. People haven't paid attention to it.

The Strategic Command report asks how we should reconstruct our nuclear and other forces for the post-Cold War period. And the conclusions are that we have to rely primarily on nuclear weapons because unlike other weapons of mass destruction, such as chemical and biological, the effects of nuclear weapons are immediate, devastating, overwhelming - not only destructive but terrifying. So they have to be the core of what's called deterrence.

========================

Amen brother! Now that's christian!
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 05:33 am
What's particularly hard to stomach is the incredible hypocrisy.

===================

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/213878_dowd01.html

Bush has some nerve lecturing Putin

By MAUREEN DOWD

It was remarkable to see President Bush lecture Vladimir Putin on the importance of checks and balances in a democratic society.

Remarkably brazen, given that the only checks Bush seems to believe in are those written to the "journalists" Armstrong Williams, Maggie Gallagher and Karen Ryan, the fake TV anchor, to help promote his policies. The administration has given a whole new meaning to checkbook journalism, paying a stupendous $97 million to an outside PR firm to buy columnists and produce propaganda, including faux video news releases.

The only balance W. likes is the slavering, Pravda-like "fair and balanced" coverage Fox News provides. Bush pledges to spread democracy while his officials strive to create a Potemkin press village at home.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 06:13 am
What a mess.A cacophony of social engineers i.e.socialists using moral values as weapons to bang each other and getting nowhere in a punch drunk condition.Urban warfare.

Abortion is disgusting,capital punishment is disgusting,war is disgusting.People are going to do them though.Well-they have to live with it.It has nothing to do with me.I never vote.I didn't ask to be here.The whole thing is disgusting.It looks disgusting,it smells disgusting,it tastes disgusting,it sounds disgusting,it feels disgusting and that's because it is disgusting.

You have to change your way of thinking
Get yourself a brand new set of rules
Put your best foot forward
And stop being influenced by fools.

And there's nothing you can say about that that I haven't already gone through with a fine toothcomb.Which isn't easy.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 07:17 am
well, I see I stopped practicing and started arguing. We should get back to the task at hand. We don't have to agree, we just need to practice.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 07:48 am
Lola:-

What happened to McG's avvie?Have you got to her.If she's a he then the avvie was even funnier.

An avvie is the sort of thing this thread is about.A public presentation of yourself,or selves,which will likely be designed to impose a tone the viewer or listener might be inclined to approve of and hence vote for.snood's latest avvie being an exception in most cases.Your avvie when linked with the buzz word Manhattan gives a certain impression which might well be slightly misleading.Some of your posts have a "bluestocking" tinge you know.

Have you seen cyracuz's Shakespeare thread.It has been hi-jacked by self-pity ladlers.

Another thing-I posted to Foxfyre on Sat.The label thread.No1194891 on page 5.Completely ignored.
As I told her,she only wants a free discussion about what she wants a free discussion about.Is that the sort of thing you are going to practice?Just pretending nothing happened must have a number on your list.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 08:08 am
Spendius writes
Quote:
Another thing-I posted to Foxfyre on Sat.The label thread.No1194891 on page 5.Completely ignored.
As I told her,she only wants a free discussion about what she wants a free discussion about.Is that the sort of thing you are going to practice?Just pretending nothing happened must have a number on your list.


I did not see your post nor could I find it in a cursory look through this morning. Nor do I have time or inclination to read through every single post everybody makes on every thread, and sometimes I will miss one, so if I insulted you by presumably ignoring you, I apologize. I will say, however, that those who argue via personal insult and those who presume to know me well enough to tell me what I think and what I want are frequently not going to get a response. Nobody arrogant enough to do that has gotten it right yet.

For the most part I do appreciate your take on a lot of things Spendius and I do read most of your posts.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 08:24 am
Here's some information that I think the Dems need in order to really understand how to argue. Gives some real insight into the mentality of the Right, not to mention some of the silly policies we are seeing presented.

http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/05/03/int05011.html

Though I'm linking the info here as further insight, you can discuss the theory itself at the following link so this thread doesn't get sidetracked: http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46654&highlight=
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 09:17 am
JTT wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
JTT: Here's an idea ... why not post a list of all the things about the US, or things it has done in the past, which you detest. Sort of a, "Why I Hate the United States" list. That would be real helpful, don't you think? You know you want to ......


There's not enough room on this site, Tico.

What number has rocketing off on tangents been given?

What number has the specific tangent "you hate the USA" been given? It is a popular RW theme, isn't it?


We all go off on tangents at times, don't we? Like when someone is talking about the founding fathers of the US being Christians, and you posting an article about the use of Agent Orange in Vietnam.

Let's call "You hate the USA" #30 (a nice number from the Bible). And there is enough room JTT. There's enough room in your next post to state all the reasons you hate the USA. You're kinda new around here, and most of us don't know the depths of your hatred towards the US. Please enlighten us.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 01:54 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
JTT wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
JTT: Here's an idea ... why not post a list of all the things about the US, or things it has done in the past, which you detest. Sort of a, "Why I Hate the United States" list. That would be real helpful, don't you think? You know you want to ......


There's not enough room on this site, Tico.

What number has rocketing off on tangents been given?

What number has the specific tangent "you hate the USA" been given? It is a popular RW theme, isn't it?


We all go off on tangents at times, don't we? Like when someone is talking about the founding father's of the US being Christians, and you posting an article about the use of Agent Orange in Vietnam.

Let's call "You hate the USA" #30 (a nice number from the Bible). And there is enough room JTT. There's enough room in your next post to state all the reasons you hate the USA. You're kinda new around here, and most of us don't know the depths of your hatred towards the US. Please enlighten us.


also be interesting to know if jtt is an american, native born or naturalized. if not, then where be you ?
0 Replies
 
theantibuddha
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 07:24 pm
spendius wrote:
i.e.socialists


I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Quote:
to bang each other


Nor that phrase.

Quote:
Urban warfare.


Nor that one.

Quote:
You have to change your way of thinking


Because it disagrees with yours?

Quote:
Get yourself a brand new set of rules


Because you don't like the old?

Quote:
Put your best foot forward


To impress whom? You perhaps? Or do you have another target in mind.

Quote:
And stop being influenced by fools.


I bite back the easy retort that springs to mind and will simply ask, do they disagree with you because they are fools or are they fools because they disagree with you?

Quote:
And there's nothing you can say about that that I haven't already gone through with a fine toothcomb.


Don't imagine you can have possibly addressed all arguments that exist unless you wish to make yourself look particularly ridiculous.

....

Why do I bother?
0 Replies
 
Adrian
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 07:36 pm
Buggered if I know mate...but it's funny.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 09:18 pm
I quite liked it, I have to admit.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 12:53 am
Tico:
We all go off on tangents at times, don't we? Like when someone is talking about the founding fathers of the US being Christians, and you posting an article about the use of Agent Orange in Vietnam.

JTT: It would be nice if you could actually get your facts right, Tico. What number is picking out disparate info and ignoring the issue?

Tico:
Let's call "You hate the USA" #30.

JTT: Okay, it's #30. And it proves Lola's point again. RW's avoid the issues by tossing up garbage.

Everything I've put up comes from USA sources, from the mouths of USA citizens. All these sources CLEARLY point out that these christian principles are sorely lacking in the policies of the government of the US.

And it really is a stretch for those who blindly support these atrocities to call themselves christian. Note, Tico that the operative word is "blindly"; just what you're attempting here.

In actual point of fact, I don't hate the USA. I hate hypocrisy and I hate the mistreatment of citizens of the world by big bullies. I don't care if it's France, England, Russia or the USA. Possibly, the only difference is that the first three aren't so blatantly hypocritical.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 06:47 am
Well one way conservatives argue is to offer one way tickets to any Americans who wish to renounce their citizenships and move to France or England or Germany or any other country they consider to be superior to the United States. And darn it, you know nobody is taking them up on that? Not Alex Baldwin or Barbara Streisand or any of the big Hollywood stars who made such bold pronouncements of intent if the election didn't go their way.

Somebody posted recently something to the effect that France, rather than the United States, is the country of choice for refugees these days. (I didn't read that post closely so may be getting it wrong here.) I hope its true. A little more diversity is probably good for anybody.

But the fact that this country provides full freedom for people to put it down, smear it, criticize it, hold it up to derision and insult is probably why people opt to stay right here just the same. And its probably why it is still the country of choice for people to come to legally or illegally when they do decide to move. Maybe just maybe it has more going for it than those who use hate speech if not real hate to describe it think.

Did you get that liberals? This one is really a biggie. And if you get it right, it will gain you votes at the polls.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 07:19 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Somebody posted recently something to the effect that France, rather than the United States, is the country of choice for refugees these days. (I didn't read that post closely so may be getting it wrong here.) I hope its true. A little more diversity is probably good for anybody.


That was about asylum seekers, not refugees.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46585&highlight=
0 Replies
 
theantibuddha
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 07:44 am
Foxfyre wrote:
offer one way tickets to any Americans who wish to renounce their citizenships and move to France or England or Germany or any other country they consider to be superior to the United States ... nobody is taking them up on that? Not ... any of the big Hollywood stars who made such bold pronouncements of intent if the election didn't go their way.


Well except for Johnny Depp, but who even notices him with Orlando Bloom running around these days.

Quote:
Somebody posted recently something to the effect that France, rather than the United States, is the country of choice for refugees these days. (I didn't read that post closely so may be getting it wrong here.) I hope its true. A little more diversity is probably good for anybody.


Well France is approximately four to six thousand miles closer as the mole burrows, not to mention an awful lot easier to sneak into being on an immensely populated continent with a very open border policy rather than an island surrounded by much much water.

And of course poverty-stricken people in war torn countries have access to entirely accurate information about the current state of affairs within America and are making researched, reliable and thought out decisions to move there as bombs fall down around their ears.

Quote:
But the fact that this country provides full freedom for people to put it down, smear it, criticize it, hold it up to derision and insult is probably why people opt to stay right here just the same.


Yes yes, land of the free, home of the brave. Of course, France is the same if not much much better and the American designs for freedom did have an awful deal of influence from the French to make it what it is today. In America it's cool yet not polite to diss one's own country. In France it is both cool, polite and when done right involves a certain savoir-faire.

You know, come to think of it you can also criticise your own country in...

Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, England, Germany, Ireland, Italy, New Zealand, Norway, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and Wales... Probably others but those are the only ones I'm certain enough about.

Quote:
Maybe just maybe it has more going for it than those who use hate speech if not real hate to describe it think.


Most likely, extremists of any description are rarely capable of accurate measurement and tend toward polarisation.
<folds hands and whistles innocently>

Quote:
Did you get that liberals?


I'm not a liberal, nor an american for that matter. But yes, I understand quite well.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 07:51 am
theantibuddha wrote:
not to mention an awful lot easier to sneak into being on an immensely populated continent with a very open border policy rather than an island surrounded by much much water.


France is part of the so-called Schengen countries: the border control for those is done in that country, you enter first.
(This means, generally border controls in France are only to be found at ports and airports.)
0 Replies
 
 

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