Confused Dad

I wish I could help you, but this is something rather complicated and you need to speak with a family lawyer about this.

My heart goes out to you and I wish you the very best.

Seems like you will need to take some legal steps to ensure your rights, as well as responsibilities (which you appear to have already accepted), as a parent to this young woman.

You'll need to get legal advice appropriate to your jurisdiction.

Good luck in your efforts to handle this the right way.

I agree with my compatriots that you must speak with an attorney.

Before you do that though, there are a number of things that you need to decide.

What do you want?

Do you want a relationship with your daughter?

Do you want to modify or stop the child support?



What was THIS all about? You must show this paper to a lawyer.

Be aware, that you cannot force a relationship, especially when the girl is a teenager. But I think that you really need to clarify, in your own mind, the expectations that you have.

What you don't know is what the woman has said to your daughter about her father over the years. If there is a great difference in the way that you and the woman are living, this may be part of the animosity shown to your younger child by your daughter.

First, think this through, and be very clear in your own mind what you want to accomplish. I know that there is probably a lot of emotional conflict going on inside you. It is natural, and to be expected. Good luck!


Oh, and BTW, Welcome to A2K!

You have to decide what you want.
You have to decide what you want.

Fourteen years ago, you didn't know what you wanted. You didn't know for sure if the baby was yours. You were told things that would give doubts to any reasonable man. You were also told that the baby was going to be put up for adoption. You were asked to sign a relinquishment of parental rights in order to make the child available for adoption. You did that; but later found out that the mother kept the child. You didn't do anything about the situation because, frankly, you didn't know what to do.

You've thought about this child over the years and suddenly got the call: She's thirteen years old and she wants to meet her father.

You're elated. You meet the child, you know she's yours, but to ease any lingering doubts, testing was done and now you know for sure: She's your biological child.

You attempted to establish a meaningful relationship with your daughter, but it didn't go well. Maybe you suspect that your daughter is experiencing some repressed anger concerning the situation (and all the years she missed having a relationship with you) and maybe she is experiencing some jealousy concerning your son. After all, your son has had from the very beginning of his life something that she didn't have (and had a right to have): a relationship with YOU.

You were probably correct in realizing that counseling was necessary to help your daughter work through her mixed and complex feelings that go with meeting her father and trying to find her place within your family. But, her mother rejected counseling for the daughter -- and now you're voluntarily paying support and school tuition -- but you don't see your daughter anymore.

I assume there has never been any court proceedings to legally establish your paternity nor your parental rights and obligations.

You have presented very complex "family" dynamics here -- from both legal and psychological perspectives. But, no one exists that can help you to unravel the situation until you decide what you want.

Maybe you ought to go to counseling, discuss the situation with a professional, and figure out if you indeed want a relationship with your daughter and if so, how do you go about developing that desired relationship? How do you handle the emotional/psychological issues that are impeding the relationship (e.g., your daughter's possible feelings of rejection by you during her formative years, your daughter's possible feelings of jealousy concerning your son, etc.)?

You have to figure out what you want and then go from there. Tell us, what do you want?

Wow, finally someone is listening to me - Thank You.

I have spent quite a bit of time with a child psychologist talking about this. I let her mom know that I wanted to get the help of a therapist and she said that she would talk to our daughter about meeting with the therapist.
After a few months of waiting, I asked if she was ready and her mother said that she totally rejected the idea.
"She does not want anyone to think she is crazy."
I kind of understand that, but I was hoping that a neutral party with some expertise was my best shot at getting to understand which way to go.
I did actually talk her mother into going to the therapist on one occasion. The therapist told me afterward that she did not have too much hope of any progress because the mother talked a lot about how she disliked men in general. And that more than likely, my daughter was raised with a negative image of men.
She told the therapist that her father had left her family when she was young (which my therapist thinks is the reason she never contacted me in the 1st place) and she has never had a relationship with another man and our daughter has never had a relationship with any man period. Essentially, that the odds are stacked against me ever having a meaningful relationship with her.

As far as what I want out of this. Well, the big picture is that I hope when she is an adult and able to understand the whole thing a bit better, that she will understand that, while I made mistakes initially, by not pushing the issue and finding out if she was mine or not, it was not until she was 13 that I was contacted by her mother. I was not given all the facts and if given a choice back then, I would have loved to be her father.
I'm not so much worried about the child support, although it is a huge financial burden on me and my wife. It's just that it seems that support is the only thing that the mother wanted. If so, that's fine she has that right I guess. I just want to know if I'm fighting for something that I will never have (a chance for my daughter to get to know the real me and have a meaningful relationship), our will me just sending money over every month be all there is to this. Perhaps, I will never know her and she will live with the pain and resentment over me and I'll never be able to get through to her.

Thanks again, just sitting here thinking and writing about this is somewhat therapeutic.

I think you are doing the right things.

The mistakes of the past cannot be erased. Both you and your daughter lost the first thirteen years; but that doesn't mean that you have to lose all the rest of the years too.

You're voluntarily paying child support and you're paying tuition at a private school. Her financial needs are being addressed -- plus she's getting an excellent education -- thanks to you.

The relationship: one step at a time. Try bribery! That works on teenagers. Call her on the phone:

"Hey sweetie, this is Dad. I'm thinking about you, I miss seeing you, and I want to do something special together. How about we go to the mall Thursday evening. We'll get something to eat and maybe do some shopping . . . do you need new shoes . . . or earrings . . . or something?"

Hmmmm. She might go for a little one-on-one time with her dad.

If that works, call her again in a few days and invite her out -- just the two of you -- for an evening of bowling, roller-skating, or a movie.

Building a relationship takes baby steps. If you make the effort -- every week -- a telephone call to let her know you're thinking about her and maybe an invite to spend time together, you might be surprised how receptive she becomes (if she knows she is valued and loved . . . .)

I wouldn't include your son just yet. She needs her Dad all to herself right now. Maybe later, every third or fourth outting, you could include your son so he can get to know his sister.

It's just going to take baby steps . . . remembering her birthday, sending cards, going to her school functions, spending time with her, giving her LOTS of praise . . . and that relationship you want with her will eventually develop and flourish.

Just keep trying. Without continuous, patient effort on your part, nothing will happen.

Just love your daughter and all good things will follow.

new-dad
I applaud you and I also agree that you're doing the right thing.

Debra
Excellent advice :-D

Debra- Beautifully stated!



Now, you may not get the reaction that you want, at first. She may not want to talk to you. She may not want to go with you. It will be difficult, but don't give up. Let us say that her response is negative. At some point, when she is an adult, it will "hit" her that her dad really was trying.

There is a possibility that her mother will attempt to sabotage your relationship with your daughter. After all, she has had her all to herself. She now has to share her daughter, which she may find threatening.

If she does respond positively, I would be careful about always tying these visits to buying her something. What you don't want is for her to perceive you as a cash cow that she can use. Some visits should be just being together, going to the movies, a walk, etc.



This may well be the "cover story" that was concocted by the mother, to protect the child, and to save her own face. I sincerely doubt that the mother would tell the girl that she was the product of a one-night stand.
She needs to be told the truth, but not until she is older, is on solid footing with you, and has started to work through some of her own emotional issues.

What you have not discussed much is the attitude of your wife and son. How supportive are they, especially your wife? How strongly does she want you to pursue this issue? Bottom line, your wife and son are your top priorities.

I think that talking to a therapist, and even batting ideas around on A2K, is very helpful for you. It enables you to see many sides of what is, after all, an extremely complicated scenario.

Is your daughter active in school activities? Can you show up at those to admire her and get to know her?

I tried on several occasions to do things with her like go to a movie, the mall, shopping. It has evolved into her just wanting me to go over to her house and visit. This is ok, but sitting around her house with her and her mother is not very comfortable. I mean she is a totally diff. person when around her mother. She basically ignores me and I end up just talking to her mother.
It's like I need her mothers help to get her to respond to me, perhaps being talked into going somewhere with me, but her mother just allows her to ignore me, sometimes she just goes into her room, gets on the phone and I end up sitting and watching TV with her mother for an hour and then leaving. It's very strange.

As far as my wife and son, my son thinks she hung the moon. He asks about her often. He's only 4 so he's too young to understand any of this of course, but he knows he has a sister and wants to see her. Which leads to my wife. This is very difficult because the last 2 times she has been to my house, she has actually shoved my son to the floor. I mean he wants to play with her, so he will sit next to her on the couch or something and she will get up and move to the other side of the room. On the 2 occasions that she got physical with him, he was trying to hug her and she just shoved him to the ground. Now I know perhaps she just doesn't feel comfortable with him yet, but I asked her why she did it and she said that she just doesn't like kids. I understand that she probably has a lot of animosity towards him, but believe me my wife has a hard time accepting that as an excuse. She will not accept that as a reason why a 13 year old has to act that way to a 4 year old. They have only been around each other maybe 6 or 7 times for a few hours each time and it's already obvious that she has strong feelings about him.
At first my wife was very happy that we were dealing with this. In fact, she picked her up from school on several occasions and took her shopping to try to establish there own friendship, just the two of them. That was going fine for a while until my wife started seeing her lash out verbally and then physically. At that point she had enough and insisted that we do something. I talked to her mother and her about it. I just got the "I don't like kids" answer. The next time she came over she did it again, and that was the last time she came over.

So, is my wife right? I think so. I cannot ask her to expose her son to that kind of treatment. It's not fair to her or him.

Is it a little clearer now?
I am stuck between a great big rock and a very hard place.

Thanks again for all the good advice. I really need it.

Oh yeah, I forgot to ask.
I do not know how I ended up in the legal catagory.
Is that ok, or should I move to Parenting?

Thanks

Persistence and patience. If you have to go over to her house every week and sit there for an hour, so be it. Go to her school functions; call her on the phone just to say, "hi."

But please don't just fade out of her life. That's probably what she's expecting to happen anyway . . . and she may have put up walls to protect herself. After all, her mom has conditioned her to think that men simply abandon women and children.

It's hard. The rewards are small right now. But if she eventually figures out that you'll always be there for her -- that you're not going to disappear and forget about her -- she might have a better chance of trusting men when she becomes an adult and actually developing healthy relationships.

Another thing. I think she may be jealous of your son. She probably pushes him away -- pushes him to the floor in part because she's jealous of him and in part to test you.

"I don't like kids," she says as an excuse. (Maybe she doesn't like little kids, but her reaction to your son's hugs / attention is a testing behavior.) Maybe she's waiting for your response. Maybe she's waiting to see if you become angry with her -- to see whose side you will take. She may be testing to see if she is on equal footing with you -- or whether your son is more important to you than she is. She probably doesn't even realize why she's doing the things she does and saying the things she says.

Maybe she's engaging in self-fullfilling prophesy behaviors: My dad's going to fade out of my life anyway . . . so she's rejecting you, pushing you away before you can do it to her.

Again. Be patient, be persistent. Don't fade out of her life.

Keep trying. I think that if you can, it is better not to be in a position where it is you, your daughter, and her mother. I am not so sure that you staying in the mother's home is such a good idea, right now. What you don't want, is for your daughter to have fantasies about the three of you being together.

It is also not fair to subject your son, and your wife, to your daughter's bad behavior, at this point. Whenever you can, spend the majority of the time away from her mother's house. This may mean very short visits, at first, but so be it. As Debra has said, the rewards for you here may come very slowly, or even not at all, so be prepared for that. If things start to improve, then reintroduce your family to your daughter. Foisting them on her when she is not emotionally ready, will not do any of you any good.

Remember, you daughter is a young teenager, who are, in the best of circumstances, difficult. Your daughter, in addition to the usual teenage angst, has some difficult emotional problems with which to deal. You need to be persistent, but very patient.

This is in the legal forum because you were initially asking about parental rights / obligations. Now that we know what you want, we can discuss those issues too . . .

Legally, you have no parental rights that you can enforce without first obtaining a paternity judgment through a court of law.

Legally, you have a duty to support your daughter whether or not a support order has been entered . . . but that duty cannot be legally enforced until an order is entered.

There's a lot more to consider . . . but that's a starting point.