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THey said they had nukes....

 
 
J-B
 
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 06:37 am
ohoh
http://wwwi.reuters.com/images/mdf855234.jpg


The Yongbyon-1 nuclear power plant is shown in North Korea in this International Atomic Energy Agency file photograph from May 1992. Photo by Reuters (Handout)
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 2,290 • Replies: 30
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SerSo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 09:50 am
Re: THe said they had nukes....
Quote:
SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korea declared on Thursday for the first time it possessed nuclear weapons and pulled out indefinitely from six-party talks on its atomic ambitions, saying it needed a defense against a hostile United States.

Now that North Korea officially declared they had nukes it makes me really anxious. The fact that nuclear weapons sprawl all over the world is a very bad thing itself. But in this case nukes actually are weapons of deterrence and North Koreans do not seem to use them to attack somebody. Though Russia is a country neighbouring to North Korea very few people here would fear their nuclear missiles. What makes me nervous is the possible US reaction to it. Military invasion could be devastating for the entire region including Russian Far East. Or maybe North Korea will ultimately get what they want: being left alone? I do hope the world leaders would act wisely.

I wonder what people from the other countries bordering North Korea think. I guess South Korea and Japan (unlike Russia) will feel fearful for their safety because of North Korean nukes. What about the Chinese?
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 10:02 am
bookmark
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 10:23 am
Re: THe said they had nukes....
SerSo wrote:
SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korea declared on Thursday for the first time it possessed nuclear weapons and pulled out indefinitely from six-party talks on its atomic ambitions....Though Russia is a country neighbouring to North Korea very few people here would fear their nuclear missiles....Or maybe North Korea will ultimately get what they want: being left alone? I do hope the world leaders would act wisely.

Let's let North Korea stockpile as many nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons as it pleases. But let us also apply this rule to every other country in the world which wants them now or in the future, including small countries ruled by insane dictators. Let's just stand back and let anyone have them who wants them.

Then, in the future, when the whole world is armed to the teeth with WMD, including people who aren't either nice or careful, what do you suppose will happen?
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 10:48 am
Brandon, why are you throwing a little mini tantrum? You must have gathered for a long time that this day would come.
Russia, China, Japan and S Korea will find it in their best interests to negotiate along with the US to an easing of the threat.
It'll probably be smart for our State Dept to tone down some of its "Axis" chatter too
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 10:56 am
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SerSo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 11:15 am
N Korea's statement in full
Quote:
The following text is the full statement released on Thursday by North Korea's KCNA news agency. North Korea refers to itself as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK).
Pyongyang, February 10 (KCNA) - The DPRK Ministry of Foreign Affairs released a statement Thursday to clarify its stand to cope with the grave situation created by the US hostile policy toward the DPRK.

The statement says:

The second-term Bush administration's intention to antagonize the DPRK and isolate and stifle it at any cost has become quite clear.

As we have clarified more than once, we justly urged the US to renounce its hostile policy toward the DPRK whose aim was to seek the latter's "regime change" and switch its policy to that of peaceful co-existence between the two countries. We have closely followed with patience what policy the second-term Bush regime would shape after clarifying the stand that in that case it would be possible to solve the nuclear issue, too.

However, the administration turned down our just request and adopted it as its policy not to co-exist with the DPRK through the president's inaugural address and the state of the union address and the speech made by the secretary of State at the Congress hearing to get its approval, etc.
The remarks made by senior officials of the administration clarifying the official political stance of the US contained no word showing any willingness to co-exist with the DPRK or make a switchover in its policy toward it.

On the contrary, they have declared it as their final goal to terminate the tyranny, defined the DPRK, too, as an "outpost of tyranny" and blustered that they would not rule out the use of force when necessary.

And they pledged to build a world based on the US view on value through the "spread of American style liberty and democracy."

The true intention of the second-term Bush administration is not only to further its policy to isolate and stifle the DPRK pursued by the first-term office but to escalate it. As seen above, the US has declared a new ideological stand-off aimed at a "regime change" in the DPRK while talking much about "peaceful and diplomatic solution" to the nuclear issue and the "resumption of the six-party talks" in a bid to mislead the world public opinion.

This is nothing but a far-fetched logic of gangsters as it is a good example fully revealing the wicked nature and brazen-faced double-dealing tactics of the U.S. as a master hand at plot-breeding and deception.

The DPRK has clarified its stand that it would not pursue anti-Americanism and treat the US as a friendly nation if it neither slanders the political system in the DPRK nor interferes in its internal affairs. It has since made every possible effort to settle the nuclear issue and improve the bilateral relations.

However, the US interpreted this as a sign of weakness, defiled the dignified political system in the DPRK chosen by its people and wantonly interfered in its internal affairs. The US, turning down the DPRK's request to roll back its anti-DPRK hostile policy, a major stumbling block in the way of settling the nuclear issue, treated it as an enemy and, not content with this, totally rejected it, terming it "tyranny." This deprived the DPRK of any justification to negotiate with the U.S. and participate in the six-party talks.

Is it not self-contradictory and unreasonable for the US to urge the DPRK to come out to the talks while negating its dialogue partner? This is the height of impudence.

The US now foolishly claims to stand by the people in the DPRK while negating the government chosen by the people themselves. We advise the US to negotiate with dealers in peasant markets it claims they are to its liking or with representatives of "the organization of north Korean defectors" on its payroll if it wishes to hold talks.

Japan is now persistently pursuing its hostile policy toward the DPRK, toeing the US line.
Moreover, it fabricated the issue of false remains over the "abduction issue" that had already been settled in a bid to nullify the DPRK-Japan Pyongyang Declaration and stop any process to normalize diplomatic relations with the DPRK. How can we sit at the negotiating table with such a party?

It is the trend of the new century and wish of humankind to go in for peace, co-existence and prosperity irrespective of differing ideology, system and religious belief.

It is by no means fortuitous that the world people raise their voices cursing and censuring the Bush administration as a group pursuing tyranny prompted by its extreme misanthropy, swimming against such trend of the world.

We have shown utmost magnanimity and patience for the past four years since the first Bush administration swore in.

We can not spend another four years as we did in the past four years and there is no need for us to repeat what we did in those years.

The DPRK Foreign Ministry clarifies as following to cope with the grave situation created by the US hostile policy toward the DPRK:

First. We have wanted the six-party talks but we are compelled to suspend our participation in the talks for an indefinite period till we have recognized that there is justification for us to attend the talks and there are ample conditions and atmosphere to expect positive results from the talks.
The present deadlock of the six-party talks is attributable to the US hostile policy toward the DPRK.

There is no justification for us to participate in the six-party talks again given that the Bush administration termed the DPRK, a dialogue partner, an "outpost of tyranny", putting into the shade the hostile policy, and totally negated it.

Second. The US disclosed its attempt to topple the political system in the DPRK at any cost, threatening it with a nuclear stick. This compels us to take a measure to bolster its nuclear weapons arsenal in order to protect the ideology, system, freedom and democracy chosen by its people.

It is the spirit of the Korean people true to the Songun politics to respond to good faith and the use of force in kind.

We had already taken the resolute action of pulling out of the NPT and have manufactured nukes for self-defence to cope with the Bush administration's evermore undisguised policy to isolate and stifle the DPRK.

Its nuclear weapons will remain nuclear deterrent for self-defence under any circumstances.

The present reality proves that only powerful strength can protect justice and truth.

The US evermore reckless moves and attempt to attack the DPRK only reinforce its pride of having already consolidated the single-minded unity of the army and people and increased the capability for self-defence under the uplifted banner of Songun. The DPRK's principled stand to solve the issue through dialogue and negotiations and its ultimate goal to denuclearize the Korean Peninsula remain unchanged.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/asia-pacific/4252515.stm

Published: 2005/02/10 07:32:45 GMT

© BBC MMV

Source:
N Korea's statement in full
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 11:19 am
panzade wrote:
Brandon, why are you throwing a little mini tantrum? You must have gathered for a long time that this day would come.
Russia, China, Japan and S Korea will find it in their best interests to negotiate along with the US to an easing of the threat.
It'll probably be smart for our State Dept to tone down some of its "Axis" chatter too

The initial poster seems blissfully unaware that NK's push for WMD is part of a global trend and that allowing them to arm to the teeth in peace, and doing so to their successors too will eventually result in disaster. BTW, you are hardly one to describe my statements of opinion as tantrums, having been repeatedly chastised on this site for loss of control yourself.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 11:21 am
You might look to JB's post for a clue as to what the Chinese are thinking, SerSo.
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SerSo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 02:39 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
The initial poster seems blissfully unaware that NK's push for WMD is part of a global trend and that allowing them to arm to the teeth in peace, and doing so to their successors too will eventually result in disaster.[..]

This trend of proliferation of WMD is really frightening. Maybe I was not very specific about it in my first post:
SerSo wrote:
The fact that nuclear weapons sprawl all over the world is a very bad thing itself.


My point was that this situation is fraught with too much danger and there is no quick fix. Yet there is another trend that concerns me no less. My concern is about possible consequences of another war against "Iraq with nuclear weapons and disciplined army". Sorry to say the US tend to become a "global cop" as if somebody entitled USA to impose their vision of what the world should look like on all other nations.

BTW it was one of the reasons why North Koreans decided to develop nuclear weapons. Why can’t they just say: "USA, Russia, China, UK, France, Israel, India and Pakistan possess nukes. How come they all were allowed to protect themselves and we are deprived of the same right! Why do they think some countries have less rights than others?"

I really wish there were no weapons of mass destruction. Nowhere. I wish there were no wars. I have seen a little bit of warfare and for me it is enough. But if the world powers (unfortunately) are not going to disarm and we all still believe (I hope) that the world must not be based on brutal force, I would like to hear anybody’s opinion about what could be done to sort out this dangerous situation?
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kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 02:48 pm
Bookmark
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SerSo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 03:01 pm
roger wrote:
You might look to JB's post for a clue as to what the Chinese are thinking, SerSo.

^JB^ wrote:
I agree
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 07:23 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
BTW, you are hardly one to describe my statements of opinion as tantrums, having been repeatedly chastised on this site for loss of control yourself.


Now don't get yourself in a bother. I have never had a quarrel with you and I certainly have been magnanimous in my stated respect for your opinions.

I stated "little mini tantrum" which is apt since you weren't making a "statement of opinion", you were actually broadcasting a stance which is in direct contrast with your point of view.

I had no idea that I had been "repeatedly chastised" on this site. And I was not aware that I had ever "lost control". Do you have any proof? Or is this also your 'Opinion'?
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J-B
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 12:47 am
Aside from declaring the existence of nuclear weapons, North korea also reject the 6-party-talk. That is the most I concern. Even more than the nuclear weapon itself.

I am sure that North Korea doesn't want to depart from the global community. But Nukes will surely do that. The most adequate explanation is: North Korea dosen't want USA to igore it. They want "American Imperilists" to be frightened and to prostrate before them and then back to the negotiation table then there voice will be stronger.
But in my opinion, this scenario is unlikely to happen. We shouldn't forget the Bush administration's consistent stance on North Korea and recent addresses made by Bush. He is not inclined to surrender to one of his former "evil axis" nations.

If America do not be detered, the Nuclear weapons' power will vanish. You believe Kim is insane enough to ignite the third atomic bomb on civilian target? I dont believe. Despite technical errors, this (or these) bomb(s) unlikely to make another catastrophe.

btw, I'd like to know the maxinum range of North Korea's missile.
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J-B
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 12:58 am
roger wrote:
You might look to JB's post for a clue as to what the Chinese are thinking, SerSo.


Honestly, most CHinese dont care about the Korean Peninsula much. Most People keep uncertain whether North Koreans are friends or enemies (for they always beg for help) rich or poor (!).
North Korea still keeps in fog for us.

btw I sometimes listen to Voice of DPRK. Partly for fun Smile .Maybe it is what China looks like 30 years ago. You know Great Leader's birthday is in this month? So these days the programms are filled with the praise about every aspects of him: He is a great soldier, he is a great scholar, he is a great general, he is a great leader, he is a great patriot......
Let me listen what are they talking about today. Smile
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 06:43 am
JB. What is the reaction in China to the "great leader's" portraits being taken down all over the country?
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 06:49 am
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17721

North Korea is the most secretive country in the world today, with its main railway lined with walls so high that its foreign passengers can't see the countryside.

It is also, as Brad-ley Martin's book makes clear, the most repressive and brutal country in the world, with entire families sometimes executed if one member gets drunk and slights the Dear Leader.

It is at the same time by far the most totalitarian, with nearly every home equipped with a speaker that issues propaganda from morning to night. It is the country most defiant of the West, whose leaders not only counterfeit US $100 bills but also are building nuclear warheads.

North Korea is also, along with Iraq, the country where President Bush has most seriously bungled US foreign policy, and has made the world more dangerous and unstable.

Finally, North Korea is perhaps the least understood place on earth. There is no firm agreement on such basic facts as whether Kim Jong Il is a playboy or a savvy leader who constantly monitors the Internet and CNN.
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Greyfan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 07:53 am
As long as the U. S. has nukes, it shouldn't surprise anyone that a regime which has been designated by America as evil should desire a nuclear deterrent of its own, even if its menality wasn't us against the world.

Opponents of gun control sometimes argue we would be safer if everyone had guns. You seldom hears the same claim made for nuclear weapons, although the principle, if not the scale of the consequences, is the same.

With U. S. forces spread thin by the Iraq adventure, we have little choice in Korea, as well as in Iran, but to see if diplomacy and pressure from the world community can achieve any results. As positive results might call into question the wisdom of the Iraqi war, I wonder what the Bush administration will be hoping for; will their ideology preclude celebrating peaceful solutions, should peaceful solutions be achieved?
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 09:26 am
Greyfan wrote:
With U. S. forces spread thin by the Iraq adventure, we have little choice in Korea, as well as in Iran, but to see if diplomacy and pressure from the world community can achieve any results. As positive results might call into question the wisdom of the Iraqi war, I wonder what the Bush administration will be hoping for; will their ideology preclude celebrating peaceful solutions, should peaceful solutions be achieved?

We have little choice but to plead impotently with NK to be nice, because they have nukes, not because of the disposition of our conventional forces. If you use conventional forces to attack a nuclear power, that country has the option of killing a million people in the first hour of the battle. We wisely invaded Iraq to prevent Saddam Hussein from putting mankind over the same barrel.
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SerSo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 01:40 pm
^JB^ wrote:
[..]
btw, I'd like to know the maxinum range of North Korea's missile.

At least they have medium-range ballistic missiles capable to reach targets in Japan and even farther. For example here is a link concerning the Taepodong-1 launch on 31 August 1998: http://fas.org/nuke/guide/dprk/missile/td-1-japan99.htm. It looked like a failed attempt to launch a satellite. They are seemingly developing Taepodong-2 long-range missile, but even with sea-based TD-1 (submarine-launched) they can reach the US territory.

Taepodong is a slightly modified version of old Soviet ‘Scud’ missile, which was developed in the 60’. Precision is not a strong point of this weapon but for a nuclear warhead it is not required.
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