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What’s up in London? Murder rate surpassed NY

 
 
centrox
 
  5  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2018 11:49 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Still on the books, never enforced.

Remember what I wrote about active, aggressive policing being a key to crime rate reduction? Over the last decade, the NYPD has made more than 82,000 arrests where fourth-degree criminal possession of a weapon was the most serious charge. Most of those arrests involved possession of blades. In that same time, there have been just more than 15,000 convictions, which amounts to about 18 convictions for every 100 arrests.

Most often, the knife cases were pleaded down to non-criminal violations or adjourned in contemplation of dismissal, which means the charges were dropped if the defendant stayed out of trouble.
coldjoint
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2018 11:55 am
@centrox,
Quote:
Most often, the knife cases were pleaded down to non-criminal violations or adjourned in contemplation of dismissal, which means the charges were dropped if the defendant stayed out of trouble.


You can prove that right? Should I wait?
0 Replies
 
centrox
 
  4  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2018 12:03 pm
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Knife-Arrest-NYPD-Freddie-Gray-Illegal-Baltimore-Death-Police-Maryland-305378461.html
centrox
 
  4  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2018 12:11 pm
Regarding the 1984 scenario, in Britain, as, I imagine in most developed democratic countries with the rule of law, we have "policing by consent" - in this model of policing, police officers are regarded as citizens in uniform. They exercise their powers to police their fellow citizens with the implicit consent of those fellow citizens. "Policing by consent" indicates that the legitimacy of policing in the eyes of the public is based upon a general consensus of support that follows from transparency about their powers, their integrity in exercising those powers and their accountability for doing so. The police have wide powers, but how they use them has to be proportionate, and the courts can (and do) decide this. A guy going hunting or fishing with a large knife, a chef going to work, etc, would be fine, but a teen with a shank going to a night club, not.
coldjoint
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2018 12:15 pm
@centrox,
Did anyone ask how then murders were committed? I believe the main story here is the number of murders. Talking about the weapon used to murder is really irrelevant to that fact, the murders have outpaced NYcity.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2018 12:17 pm
@centrox,
Since Lash asked for the probable reasons ...
Spate in London youth murders directly linked to poverty and austerity, practitioners warn
Quote:
[...]
Austerity is contributing to a spate of youth murders on the streets of London, as poverty-stricken households and “decimated” youth services push young people into a cycle of violence, practitioners have warned.

Youth workers and other practitioners told The Independent financial pressures on parents to work long hours and cuts to vital youth support programmes are leaving teenagers in a “vulnerable place”. This causes some of them to turn to a life of crime, they said.

It comes amid heightened concern over violence in the capital after a 17-year-old girl was fatally gunned down in the north London borough of Tottenham. Tanesha Melbourne-Blake, who hailed from the borough, was the victim of the 47th murder recorded by Scotland Yard this year.

Of those 31 were killed with knives, the vast majority of them young men. Across England and Wales they are now at their highest levels since 2011 – growing by 12 per cent in the year ending December 2017.

Many of the victims and perpetrators were below the age of 21, prompting questions about why the number of violent incidents between teenagers appears to be increasing.

Tom Isaac, a youth worker who supports stabbing victims at a paediatrics unit in South London, told The Independent that the young people referred were usually aged between 11 and 18.

Often from households where parents are out working most of the time, he said they are deprived of youth services in the community which have been “cut to shreds”.

Oasis Youth, the service Mr Isaac heads up in St Thomas's Hospital, has seen a spate of referrals this year, with 2018 set to be the busiest year since it began.

He said there were four stabbing referrals over Easter bank holiday weekend alone.

“Poverty is a big systemic issue. If a young person’s mum is working nights as well as days, and hasn’t got time, they’re left in the flat on their own. A lot of the time the parents don’t know what’s going on. They don’t have the time or the capacity,” Mr Isaac said.

“People don’t realise how much the youth sector has been decimated. The youth and community sector has been cut to shreds. Since the recession, we’ve had cuts year on year. Now we rely on competing for funding bids. It’s really hit this year, we’re at crisis point.”

He added that for the young people growing up in many London estates, safety is "daily threat".

He said: "They feel unsafe in their area. 'I know my friend my age got stabbed last week. I need to carry a knife’. That’s their thinking. That’s the number one reason they carry knives.”

Rhammel Afflick, a 23-year-old a youth campaigner who works closely with young people in some of London's most deprived areas, said the rise in working families in poverty was directly linked to young people becoming embroiled in violence.

“The violence is linked to young people having the basics. It’s no good convincing somebody that carrying a knife isn’t the right way of going about things if that person hasn’t got the basics around them – like coming home to a meal or having a parent around,” he said.

“We know more people are working and living in poverty. All of this is having an effect. Youth violence links directly to austerity and poverty. It stems from people being in a vulnerable place in the first place.”

Mr Afflick claimed the authorities were focusing on the "wrong things" in tackling youth violence, accusing Metropolitan Police commissioner Cressida Dick of "misjudging" the issue when she recently blamed social media for playing a part in youth violence.

“We’re focusing on the wrong things. Social media might exacerbate the situation, but I don’t think you can say it’s a cause. To say its leading directly to violence is a misjudgement," he said.

"It isn’t a new problem. We’ve been talking about it before. It’s really time for the government and the mayor’s office to listen to what the communities been saying."

Temi Mwale, who started a project to stop youth violence after her childhood friend was murdered, said poverty was the “greatest form of violence”.

“It creates an environment where other forms of violence can thrive – there’s a lack of opportunity, general disadvantage,” she added.

Ms Mwale, who works with young people across London on a daily basis, added: “It is deeper than that - the solutions need to focus on addressing the health implications of violence too.

"Every young person who has been a first-hand victim of serious violence, such as a stabbing, require immediate access to counselling, therapy, other mental health services and community based emotional support services.”

Jermaine Jackman, lost a number of friends to knife crime while growing up in the north Hackney, before going on to win The Voice.

Now the chair of a youth project in the capital, he accused politicians of failing to act on the endemic, saying there was an undeniable link to poverty.

“We can’t remove this endemic from poverty – we have pockets of poverty across London. We see gentrified areas – groups and marginalised communities constantly squeezed, poor relationships with police, no trust, no confidence, no relationships,” he said.


0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2018 12:23 pm
@hightor,
Dude, I’d rather suffer a puncture wound that be hacked to pieces with one of those.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2018 12:28 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I wonder why some cops in some states/ cities / moods stop some people who are crossing the street.

I did see it once at University, but the dude was standing on the corner with us in plain view a week after some lame-ass was hit by a frat boy.

Seems so subjective.

0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2018 12:30 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
In Germany, do the cops come in and take your television if you’re behind on payments?
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2018 12:32 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
In Germany, do the cops come in and take your television if you’re behind on payments?


Only from citizens, anyone else gets a pass.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2018 12:34 pm
@centrox,
I did remember. I think I thumbed you up for that — and a few other posts. I hope you’ve noticed my irritation at laws not enforced.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2018 12:34 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
In Germany, do the cops come in and take your television if you’re behind on payments?
No, it's not a business the police is interested in (and there's no legal reason for them as well).

Anyone who fails to pay for more than six months is committing an administrative offence under the Broadcasting Contribution State Treaty and can - purely theoretically - be fined. In practice, however, the state broadcasting corporations refrain from applying for a fine.
0 Replies
 
centrox
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2018 12:50 pm
Thank you, Walter.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2018 01:01 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
I’d rather suffer a puncture wound that be hacked to pieces with one of those.

It's a lot easier to penetrate someone's body and hit a vital organ with a pointed object. (I prefer using an ice pick.) Those Japanese cooking knives aren't that big and the blades are pretty thin. You'd have a difficult time hacking anything to pieces with one but you can slice a tomato paper thin.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2018 01:08 pm
@hightor,
You should distribute guns. I’d rather be shot. All of that knife **** is so much worse.

My weapon of choice is woodchipper. So, you just watch yourself.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2018 01:23 pm
@centrox,
The knife laws vary by state, but yeah, the govt does view knives as weapons.

NYS does not have carry concealed laws for knives.
Quote:
Conclusion on New York Knife Laws

It is illegal to own a gravity knife, switchblade, pilum ballistic knife, cane sword, or metal knuckle knife in New York.

It is legal to possess a switchblade or gravity knife, if using it for hunting, fishing, or trapping, as long as the person possessing it has a valid hunting and/or fishing license.

It is illegal to carry a dirk, dagger, or stiletto with the intent of using it unlawfully against another.

New York does not have conceal carry laws, and therefore it is legal to open or conceal carry any legal knife.


I have a few knives, but I view them as tools, not weapons.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2018 01:54 pm
@McGentrix,
Also, as your post states, intent figures in heavily and who’s going to prove that? It’s like trying to pin quid pro quo on a corrupt politician ...
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2018 02:12 pm
@centrox,
Quote:
These, in practical terms, are not a lot different from UK law.


Then you have more in common with citizens of Mississippi than I'm sure you ever imagined (or hoped) to have.

There are states with far fewer regulations: Texas for one. I can carry a broadsword down Main Street Dallas, and would not be required to explain my reason for being so adorned to a cop. I happen to think that's a good thing, but I'm sure many would disagree.

You'll note though that there is no reference to locking mechanisms in the MS law and I would be surprised to find any in even the most draconian of regulating states. I was sort of hoping that Walter might come through with an explanation of why the UK finds such mechanisms so problematic. Maybe he's still working on it.

In New York, it is not legal to purchase knives through the mail. How this protects citizens of the state is as mysterious to me as the UK's concern for locking mechanisms.



centrox
 
  4  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2018 02:41 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
In New York, it is not legal to purchase knives through the mail. How this protects citizens of the state is as mysterious to me as the UK's concern for locking mechanisms.

A mystification shared by some UK experts in the field...

In the "Law Society Gazette"

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/analysis/law-on-lock-knives-is-in-need-of-re-examination-/49253.article

Quote:
[...] the word on the street is that this type of [locking] ‘utility knife’ is becoming the ideal gang weapon. It is easy to purchase, compact and easy to conceal, has a very sharp replaceable blade that can be disposed of after ‘use’, and locks firmly in place.The reality is that there is a greater chance of the police arresting the respectable citizen who has innocently purchased such a knife from a reputable store, because they will have a more overt approach to its possession. The streetwise gang member knows the legal situation and has a number of covert methods for keeping such a knife out of sight until needed.

Let’s just recap before we lose sight of the paradox in this legislation. Stores can legitimately and legally sell lock knives to the public, but having them in a public place is an arrestable offence. Is it me, or does something have to be seriously re-examined?

Mike Finn, a former police officer and an expert witness on weapons, martial arts and violent crime, is director of consultancy for Elite International and principal of the Combative Science Institute


coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2018 02:44 pm
I guess I am missing something here. It sounds like the knife is more important than the crime. The only solution I can see is taping both hands to the private parts of every living person.
 

 
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