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Far-right activists banned from entering Britain

 
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 08:25 am
@Walter Hinteler,
This is how the far right has always worked, violence and intimidation.

The Independent has been at the forefront of shining a light on UKIPs transformation from an anti EU party to an anti Muslim one.

Quote:
UKIP is being turned into an “anti-Islamic party” that could soon have Tommy Robinson as one of its leaders, according to alarmed defectors.

Three MEPs have resigned in a little over two months, amid infighting over leader Gerard Batten’s shift towards the far right.

Robinson is currently banned from becoming a member by party rules, but has been inciting his supporters to join Ukip so they can influence its policies.

The national executive committee (NEC) delayed a potential ballot on Robinson’s membership until after Brexit in March, but Mr Batten responded by making him an “adviser” on grooming gangs and prisons.

Defectors believe Mr Batten will be further emboldened by surviving a vote of no confidence mounted by supporters of former leader Nigel Farage on Sunday.

Suzanne Evans, Ukip’s former deputy chair, said as she resigned that the result was the end of the road.

She described being increasingly alarmed in recent months by the "perverse direction" in which Mr Batten was taking Ukip, and saw the vote as the party’s last hope.

Ms Evans accused the NEC and remaining MEPs of turning a blind eye to the "obvious attempts by Gerard and Robinson to orchestrate a Momentum-style takeover”.

“I would never have joined Ukip as it stands today, obsessed as it is with becoming a successor to the British National Party (BNP) and the English Defence League (EDL), and putting an increasingly hostile and vicious focus on attacking the Muslim community en masse,” she said.

A spokesperson for Ukip said Mr Batten was disappointed in Ms Evans’s decision.

“However, he must weigh up the loss of a few individual members such as Ms Evans with the more than 8,000 new members who have joined the party since he became leader,” a statement said.

Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, founded the EDL in 2009 but left four years later.

The anti-Islam activist now styles himself as an “independent reporter” and has capitalised on a surge of publicity over his imprisonment earlier this year to forge political ties across Europe, the US and Australia.

Mr Batten has appeared at several “Free Tommy” protests – including one where Batten labelled the prophet Muhammed a “paedophile” – and has repeatedly called Islam a death cult.

He has been pushing for Robinson to be allowed to join Ukip, but the party's rules exclude former members of the BNP and EDL.

Mr Batten said Robinson did not need to be a member to become his adviser, amid outrage last month, and the pair would speak at a “Brexit betrayal” march in London on Sunday.

Robinson has called on the more than one million people who follow his Facebook page to join Ukip and has been directing them to its registration page.

One post from 27 November was commented on by hundreds of supporters who claimed they had joined because of Robinson.

“By joining we can influence the party,” Robinson told them. “Members that join with similar views shape the direction.”

He assured them that as the EDL had no formal membership, it was impossible to prove, and claimed that followers would be able to vote him into Ukip in a potential ballot in March.

One jubilant Robinson supporter wrote: “You will be in charge one day and I’ll be there.”

An MEP who quit Ukip in October told The Independent he feared that Mr Batten was keeping the seat warm for Robinson.

Bill Etheridge said the current leader, aged 64, was not getting any younger and had previously voiced an intention to retire.

“The fact Robinson has been taken on as an adviser without even being a member would suggest he is going to have a senior role,” he said.

“He will be involved in the clique around Gerard and certainly I would have thought in time he would have ambitions to taking on the leadership … I think Mr Batten might be keeping the seat warm.”

William Dartmouth, a hereditary peer and MEP who quit Ukip in September, raised similar concerns.

“Mr Batten is setting Robinson up to be the leader,” he told The Independent. “Resigning members have been replaced by people who support Mr Robinson and his ilk.

“This has entirely been led by Mr Batten and he's got no mandate to do it. His conduct is an utter disgrace.”

Mr Batten was appointed interim leader of Ukip in February, after predecessor Henry Bolton was ousted over his affair with a model who made racist comments about Meghan Markle and later apologised.

“He stood on a ticket of continuity and there was no election,” Lord Dartmouth said.

“Since then he has completely hijacked Ukip and turned it into an anti-Islamic party.”

Asked whether Ukip was in the grip of an identity crisis following the EU referendum, the MEP insisted it still had a role to play in an increasingly uncertain Brexit.

Lord Dartmouth claimed that Mr Batten’s views on Islam were previously not known among the membership and that he rarely gave speeches until his appointment.

Mr Etheridge said he had intended to stand as leader himself but was told by Mr Batten that he would be leader for a year "and entirely focus on Brexit”.

“From that point on his focus became more and more the issues around Tommy Robinson and multiculturalism,” he said.

“He was approached by several people who asked him to keep to the remit of Brexit, but he just carried on.

“He marginalised many of us who had been Farage supporters and made it clear he was taking the party in his own direction.”

Mr Etheridge said figures he saw before his resignation showed that party membership has risen, but he believed that those with more moderate views had been leaving in droves.

“When Gerard goes round saying Islam is a death cult, he doesn’t leave anyone in doubt of his stance,” he said.

“The membership has changed dramatically in its character and style, as has the direction of the party.”

Speakers at Ukip’s party conference in September included right-wing bloggers recently welcomed as members such as Mark Meechan (Count Dankula), who is best-known for being prosecuted over a video showing a pug performing Nazi salutes.

An “interim manifesto” presented at the event included proposals to create Muslim-only prisons and repeal hate crime laws.

Mr Etheridge, who has joined the Libertarian Party, said the manifesto was not discussed with anyone – "apart from a small circle of Gerard’s friends” – and shocked other members.

“I tried to argue the case and rally support around people nudging him back in the right direction, but the ferocity of support for Gerard from new members made it impossible to change,” he said.

Patrick O’Flynn, another MEP who quit Ukip last week, said he had also tried to persuade Mr Batten to maintain his focus on Brexit and abandon an apparent and growing fixation with Robinson.

“Instead he has done the opposite,” he said in his resignation statement.

Defectors acknowledge that there has always been a “school of nationalism” within Ukip but insisted the party had a broad membership united around opposition to the EU, and took active steps to keep far-right extremists out.

They pointed to the 2017 rejection of the virulently anti-Islam leadership candidate Anne Marie Waters and numerous expulsions of councillors over their views.

Mr Etheridge said Mr Batten appeared to have saved Ukip temporarily from financial ruin and secured a small but significant net membership increase.

“By calling people to rally round his very strong and extreme views on certain matters, he will have a strong membership, but he’ll also frighten off the general public who might have been inclined towards Ukip in the past,” he warned.

“Ukip should be on at least 15 per cent in the opinion polls and it’s not. I believe it is because his views are making the party so marginal that normal voters just don’t want to touch it.”



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-tommy-robinson-suzanne-evans-resignation-edl-islamophobia-muslims-party-leader-a8665401.html<br />
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 08:57 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
This is how the far right has always worked, violence and intimidation.


Since 1920, the National Socialist movement has maintained a stewardship service for the violent confrontation with political opponents in hall and street battles. In November 1921, the brown-uniformed "Sturmabteilung" (SA) was formed from proven members of this thugs.


https://i.imgur.com/wRwqunDl.jpg
Picture caption: Terror from the left can only be countered with even sharper terror ("Dem Terror von links kann man nur mit noch schärferem Terror begegnen")
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 10:45 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I've just finished the latest Bernie Gunther, the first part is set in Munich. This one is set in 1957 so Bernie is dealing with post war denazification, but there's still a lot of references to what happened in Munich.

Most of it is set in Greece.

https://www.quercusbooks.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/hbg-title-97817842965443.jpg?fit=435%2C675
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 10:46 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
UKIPs transformation from an anti EU party to an anti Muslim one.

Like the Labour party is anti-Jew? What is the difference? The Left is permitted to hate and no one else is? Your position is as gutless as you.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 10:54 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

izzythepush wrote:
This is how the far right has always worked, violence and intimidation.


Since 1920, the National Socialist movement has maintained a stewardship service for the violent confrontation with political opponents in hall and street battles. In November 1921, the brown-uniformed "Sturmabteilung" (SA) was formed from proven members of this thugs.


I hope you aren't here endorsing Izzy's nonsensical assertion that such political thuggery is unique to the so called "far right". The fact is that it has been a tool of authoritarian extremists of both the left and the right for a very long time. In their early days the SA brown shirts battled with their equivalents in the then German Communist movement. There are also the organized Party/government extermination and imprisonment programs for vast numbers of opponents in the various communist governments of the Soviet empire, including the former GDR. Similar techniques were used in the avowedly socialist governments of Cuba, Nicaragua and now Venezuela.

History confirms that such political violence is a favored tool of authoritarian political movements of all types, left or right . However it also confirms that the most violence and human suffering in the last few centuries was caused by Left wing communist authoritarians in the Soviet Union and China. I'm not excusing the Nazis - they did all they could in this area , however their reach and duration in power were less than that of their rival authoritarians.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 11:45 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
History confirms that such political violence is a favored tool of authoritarian political movements of all types, left or right .

No argument here. But the Right to Izzy is his way, and Walter's way, of not talking about the elephant in the room. That is Islam and the way their governments and media twist and turn to give an impression it is not a very serious problem.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 12:06 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
I hope you aren't here endorsing Izzy's nonsensical assertion that such political thuggery is unique to the so called "far right". The fact is that it has been a tool of authoritarian extremists of both the left and the right for a very long time. In their early days the SA brown shirts battled with their equivalents in the then German Communist movement.
I'm not saying that it it is unique to the far/extreme right.

But it was here in Germany.

Political violence was the order of the day throughout the Weimar Republic. In the last years of the republic, however, it reached its peak. National Socialists and Communists fought bloody street battles almost daily.
The Red Front Fighters' Federation (RFB) was the paramilitary combat unit of the Communist Party of Germany (KPD) in the Weimar Republic. It played for the KPD the role that the SA had for the NSDAP. The left RFB, which at its best had some 150,000 members, never gained the importance of its right-wing counterpart.
The RFB was founded in 1924 and banned in 1929.
Before 1924, the right had already had numerous military units and battle groups, like the Stahlhelm ("steel helmet"). And the SA.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 12:20 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I never said any form of violence was unique to one group.

What's happening here is a right winger trying to raise the spectre of "anti-fa," which is a paper tiger. Political violence in the West is dominated by the far right, there's nothing on the left to compare.

There are tough bastards on the left, quite a few skinheads, (proper original ska loving skinheads, very anti racist,) but they're not organised and most violence tends to be a reaction, not something instigated.

The vast majority of protests by the left are peaceful, Tommy Robinson's lot go looking for trouble.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 12:23 pm
Quote:
Three bombs found at London transport hubs

Three small explosive devices have been found at buildings at major transport hubs in London, with police launching a counter-terror investigation.

Right wingers? I doubt it.
https://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/three-bombs-found-at-london-transport-hubs/news-story/bfe07a5b970bda98cd07cdd1a570afd2
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 12:28 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:
Right wingers? I doubt it.
I'm not sure if the Irish link leads to right wingers. But with your intimate knowledge of British police investigations you'll certainly enlighten us.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 12:30 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:


I'm not saying that it it is unique to the far/extreme right.

But it was here in Germany.

Political violence was the order of the day throughout the Weimar Republic. In the last years of the republic, however, it reached its peak. National Socialists and Communists fought bloody street battles almost daily.
The Red Front Fighters' Federation (RFB) was the paramilitary combat unit of the Communist Party of Germany (KPD) in the Weimar Republic. It played for the KPD the role that the SA had for the NSDAP. The left RFB, which at its best had some 150,000 members, never gained the importance of its right-wing counterpart.


The following details of your post clearly contradict your opening proposition that political violence was unique to the far right in Germany. You described the political violence of opposing Far right & Left forces in Weimar Germany and the fact that the Nazis won, and were then free to impose their violence unopposed. However the historical record shows clearly that something equivalent would have resulted had the communists won.

I also oppose the popular notion that there was something "far Right" about Hitler's National Socialists. Right wing politics to me refers to the principles of limited government, individual freedom, property rights, and the free action of civic and religious organizations in the society. The Nazis opposed all of that: they were, in their actions, far more similar to their equally authoritarian Communists whom they opposed. Their struggle was essentially one between rival thuggish authoritarian movements for control.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 12:33 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
But with your intimate knowledge of British police investigations you'll certainly enlighten us.

All I said is I did not think it is right wingers. It is called an opinion over here. Your lame attempt at an insult is par for the course.
Quote:
No arrests have been made and no individual or group has claimed responsibility. The official terrorism threat level throughout Britain is set at "severe," indicating that intelligence analysts believe an attack is highly likely.

I see no mention of Ireland in that article.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/london-bombs-found-police-investigating-heathrow-city-airport-waterloo-station-today-2019-03-04/
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 12:38 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
However the historical record shows clearly that something equivalent would have resulted had the communists won.
They didn't here in Germany. And actually never had the chance to win.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 12:44 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
I also oppose the popular notion that there was something "far Right" about Hitler's National Socialists. Right wing politics to me refers to the principles of limited government, individual freedom, property rights, and the free action of civic and religious organizations in the society. The Nazis opposed all of that: they were, in their actions, far more similar to their equally authoritarian Communists whom they opposed. Their struggle was essentially one between rival thuggish authoritarian movements for control.
The NSDAP was extreme far right - at least, as it was seen here - during the period of the existence of that party and afterwards.

Certainly you can have other preferences and views.
But try to look at it from the viewpoint of a German. One, living during those times.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 01:00 pm
@coldjoint,
Since hours, counter terror police are investigating a possible 'Irish dissident plot' after three improvised explosive devices were sent to transport hubs around London

And two hours ago, Ireland's Garda police has confirmed that they assist the Met Police with their inquiries.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 01:03 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Today's neo Nazis's are doing their level best to get rid of the word Nazi whilst keeping hold of everything else. It's twisted thinking at its worst to try to make out that Hitler's Nazi's were anything other than far right.. Duplicitous mirror thinking from a practiced mountebank.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 01:13 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

But try to look at it from the viewpoint of a German. One, living during those times.


I did.

I suspect that the main "Right Wing" element of the Nazis was the fact that they were opposed to their rivals, the Communists, and that the majority of the German population then viewed it that way.

Hitler's appeal to wealthy industrialists involved their ability to keep their property & investments (provided they supported his policies). His appeal to the working classes had a definite socialist element in it. For both resentment over Versailles and the Allied treatment of Germany after the Armistice, plus the likely perception that the Nazis represented the lesser of two evils were also likely factors.

The point here was there was little that was right wing (in the German tradition of it) inherent in Hitler's policies: His appeal was based on prevailing German grievances and his opposition to the communists.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 01:14 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Today's neo Nazis's....

are running your government and Walter's too. They have disarmed you and silenced you unless you repeat the garbage they endorse.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 01:18 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
They're keeping an open mind, one of the packages was posted from the ROI which could indicate dissident Republicans, but anyone can get a ticket to Ireland.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 01:23 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:
are running your government and Walter's too.
Just to clarify:
- Her Majesty's Government is formed by the Conservatives (with the needed support by the DUP),
- the federal German government is a coalition of the Christian Democratic Union/Christian Social Union with the Social Democratic Party,
-- my state government is a coalition of the Christian Democratic Union with Free Democratic Party.
 

 
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