Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

@okie,

Quote:

The inaccuracy, or the fallacy of his reasoning should be self evident, cyclops, to anyone with an ounce of common sense. You just do not place a thermostat above the kitchen range and expect it to function accurately or properly, period. If you cannot figure that out, you have a problem with intelligence, period.

If you put a thermostat above your range, the ONLY time it would not function "properly" would be when you are using the range. Based on the insulation found in most homes where one would require a thermostat, -

1. In winter - it means the thermostat would not turn on the furnace when the range is on. (Hint - homes are heated based on btus. Ranges produce BTUs.) This might mean the rest of your home may cool slightly BUT your kitchen would be warmer than the rest of the house. When the kitchen cools to the house temperature after you turn off your range the thermostat will function based on house temperature. This could happen as quickly as a few minutes if your kitchen is open to the rest of the house. The rest of the house is NOT going to freeze even if it is well below zero outside.

2. In summer - it means the thermostat would turn on the air conditioning because of the heat from the range. Again, the length of time you use the range wouldn't be that long. You are heating the kitchen and adding BTUs but you are also moving the air and transferring those BTUs to the rest of the house. It would mean for a short while after you use the range, the rest of the house may be cooler than your thermostat is set but it wouldn't last that long since heat would move quickly through the house and reset your thermostat.

Most homes have the thermostat in one central location okie. That means that parts of the house will be warmer and other parts cooler than what the thermostat is set to. That is the nature of heat loss in homes.

1 Reply

@okie,

Quote:

Have you ever done anything in the kitchen with your range, such as when you heat water for tea, coffee, whatever, and perhaps fry some eggs or pancakes on a griddle? How about baking some pies occasionally, or have you never heard of this sort of thing?

I would say that is obvious you have never done those things or you would know what happens to the heat in a kitchen as well as the entire house when you are baking.

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@parados,

congratulations, you have just explained to yourself why placing a thermostat near the kitchen range would be a dumb thing to do, and would yield a less moderated temperature for most of the house for a significant amount of time. Similar are the reasons why placing climate monitors in parking lots would also likely yield poor data, even fraudulant data, for a scientific study used to draw conclusions and make political policy in regard to the climate. In fact, any so-called scientist that would purport to claim such is valid science should be fired and summarily dismissed as a quack.

1 Reply

@okie,

LOL..

I have explained why it might affect short term temperature readings but over the long term the readings would not show a different trend.

Let me ask you okie, would a thermostat place over the range cause a house to freeze in the winter? If no, then why not?

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@okie,

okie wrote:

To put it as simply as possible, the environment around the kitchen range is a corrupted area, temperature wise, relative to reading and controlling house temperature in the general living area of your house, such as your living room or family room, or even in the dining room away from the range. And the corruption is not straight line in terms of degree of corruption with time, got that? You are probably scratching your head wondering why it is corrupted, ha ha? Have you ever heard of the concept of burners emitting heat? Yes, cyclops, that is how things are cooked. Have you ever done anything in the kitchen with your range, such as when you heat water for tea, coffee, whatever, and perhaps fry some eggs or pancakes on a griddle? How about baking some pies occasionally, or have you never heard of this sort of thing?

Dude. Don't be so mendacious.

If you used a thermometer over your stove, and recorded the temperature three times a day, over the course of a year - do you think the data would be 'corrupted' or invalid, as compared to a thermometer that was in your living room? Would you be unable to draw conclusions from the data?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Dude. Don't be so mendacious.

I beg your royal pardon. I looked up the word, mendacious, and apparently you just called me a liar, which places you in a position of having to state the proof of it, and you don't have any, dude.

Quote:

If you used a thermometer over your stove, and recorded the temperature three times a day, over the course of a year - do you think the data would be 'corrupted' or invalid, as compared to a thermometer that was in your living room?

Yes, without a doubt, which should be obvious to anyone with a brain.

Quote:

Would you be unable to draw conclusions from the data?

Yes, that placing the thermometer over the stove is pretty stupid if you wish to know what the more accurate temperature of your house living areas are.

Say, cyclops, do you have one of those indoor outdoor thermomethers with remote wireless sensor? They are common and almost everyone has one now. I put one up a few months ago now and I have learned, or I should say I have confirmed one very obvious and important point, it is crucial to place the remote sensor in an uncorrupt spot if I expect to receive accurate temperature readings from outside. If you have one, what has been your experience?

I am sure also that you have driven by many banks with their time and temperature display signs. It has become obvious to me which ones are more correct and which ones are not, and suspected reasons as to why they are off as often as they are. The cause for the variations are obviously or very likely the corrupt conditions of the sensor locations, etc. There are several around town, and they of course vary from each other, and I have learned which ones I think are more accurate, by comparing them to my vehicle outside temperature readout, as well as radio weather reports.

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@okie,

Quote:

Yes, that placing the thermometer over the stove is pretty stupid if you wish to know what the more accurate temperature of your house living areas are.

Except we are looking for temperature trends. This isn't an exercise to see which is the "more accurate". We only want to see what the trend is over time.

1 Reply

@okie,

Your argument shows how far away from common sense you are okie.

If I want to see how much the river is rising, it doesn't require that I take an accurate measurement of the depth of the river. It only requires that I take all my measurements the same way so I have a valid comparison.

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@parados,

If the basic data is wrong, your trends will also be potentially wrong as well. Using fraudulant data to determine a trend is not only a waste of time, but potentially extremely misleading.

1 Reply

@okie,

Bull **** okie..

If I am make a mark on the post of a dock and measure from that mark down to the water and then make that measurement every hour. Do you think I can accurately tell you when the tide comes in and when it goes out? I am NOT measuring how deep the water is.

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@parados,

parados wrote:

Your argument shows how far away from common sense you are okie.

If I want to see how much the river is rising, it doesn't require that I take an accurate measurement of the depth of the river. It only requires that I take all my measurements the same way so I have a valid comparison.

You are getting sillier with every post.

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@okie,

You are getting stupider with every post okie. (Although I didn't think that was possible.)

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@okie,

Here is another example okie..

If I take a thermometer that has no markings on it at all. If I put one mark on that thermometer and then measure the distance from the mark to the top of the mercury, do you agree that I can accurately tell when it gets warmer using my thermometer even though I can't tell the exact temperature?

1 Reply

@parados,

And don't forget to place it over your kitchen stove and it will still tell you if its getting warmer in the living room, or maybe even outside, right?

P.S. I understand why you are a lawyer, not a scientist better now!!! After all, a lawyer can get any answer you want if you pay them enough.

1 Reply

@okie,

Quote:

And don't forget to place it over your kitchen stove and it will still tell you if its getting warmer in the living room, or maybe even outside, right?

Actually, if I do take readings every hour it WILL tell me if it is getting warmer outside.

Here is one for you okie.
Let's say I have a stove in a shaded area open to the outside-

If it is 60 degrees every hour of every day and I take readings over my stove and outside under a tree in the shade. Outside, I will have 24 readings at 60 and over the stove I will have 23 readings at 60 and 1 reading at 100.
That means my average reading outside is 60 and my average reading over the stove is 61.67.

Now if the next day is 62 degrees. The average temperature over the stove and under the tree will both go up. I see the trend in BOTH thermometers. Do you agree or disagree?

1 Reply

THE AVERAGE AND MEAN ANNUAL GLOBAL TEMPERATURES INCREASED LESS THAN 1°C (1.8°F) IN THE LAST 100 YEARS.

.......................even if some of those temperatures were measured over hot stoves.

But if over the last 100 years, those particular stoves have increased in temperature, we can then blame the increasing temperatures of those stoves for that ?huge?, less than 1°C (1.8°F), increase in average and mean annual global temperatures, instead of blaming that ?huge? increase on the burning of coal and petroleum products. Then to reduce average and mean annual global temperatures we can order those particular stoves replaced by refrigerators!

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@okie,

Quote:

Yes, that placing the thermometer over the stove is pretty stupid if you wish to know what the more accurate temperature of your house living areas are.

Oh, the kitchen isn't part of your house? Most modern houses have kitchens that are in fact attached to the living area.

The fact that the temperature in the kitchen is more variable than the rest of the house, doesn't mean that the data isn't worth measuring, Okie; this is the entire point. Especially if you have centralized heating and cooling... you seem to think that we should just ignore readings from areas which have higher degrees of variability. Is that what you really think?

Cycloptichorn

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@parados,

I repeat, Parados:
I understand better now why you are a lawyer, not a scientist!! After all, a lawyer can get any answer one wants if they are paid enough money.

At least this last debate over placement of thermometers and climate stations provides some comic relief. Thanks to Parados and cyclops for that.

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@okie,

okie wrote:

I repeat, Parados:
I understand better now why you are a lawyer, not a scientist!! After all, a lawyer can get any answer one wants if they are paid enough money.

You didn't answer his questions. Why do you persist in this?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

You didn't answer his questions.

Because his questions are frankly silly, and every logical answer I have bothered to type out for him so far has met with more nonsensical posts.

1 Reply

Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

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