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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 10:13 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:


Except for the fact that we seem to be heavily lobbied to install LNG facility terminals at many coastal areas. The LNG is just another way of delivering foreign oil.


Watch it, my company does a lot of the environmental permitting support for several of the planned terminals.

You are correct, strictly speaking, however the sources of imported gas are largely different from those for petroleum, and the economics of gas recovery and sale are generally more favorable to us than those for oil.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 10:18 am
@genoves,
genoves wrote:

Okie-John Stossel wrote:("Myths, Lies and Downright Stupidity")

"It's true that the more you drive, the more you pollute BUT it's really just old, badly maintained cars that do most of the polluting. Because emission technology has improved so much , TODAY'S NEW CARS ARE 98% cleaner than the cars built in the 1960"s. Joe Norbeck, a U.C.Riverside Environmental researcher, says emissions from dozens of current models are 'ALMOST BELOW DETECTION LEVELS".
The EPA has found that after charting air pollution for more than 30 years, miles driven have increased by 170% but air pollution decreased by 54%."

Okie, people will not buy cars in which they do not feel safe. They will buy cars with emission controls which are built to withstand a crash. I would never want to see my grandchildren being transported in a tinny electric model. Their lives and well being are worth far more than a miniscule difference in air pollution.

All agreed, genoves. Advocate is an example of those that will grasp at any straw, no matter how nebulous or theoretical but far from proven, to advance an agenda that simply is not practical yet. The real problem with all of this debate starts with political philosophy, and there are those that somehow believe that central planning works, when it has never worked as well as free markets which brings planning from the bottom up instead of the top down, such that far greater efficiencies and meeting the actual needs of the citizenry results.

I think many Democrats actually visualize some kind of auto czar that determines what kinds of cars will be built, such as electric, then they order the car companies to do this at taxpayer expense, then in order to sell them, they will somehow order or subsidize all of us poor suckers out here to buy the miserable vehicles against our will. At the end of the day, it ends up being one giant boondoggle with no problems solved. No problems are solved, and more have been created.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 10:20 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:


But wouldn't you see that as a good thing?

When a private monopoly is the most efficient/effective means of delivering essential services, it only makes sense that the governing entity authorizing the monopoly provide oversight and regulation in the people's interest for the purpose of ensuring economy, competence, and environmental protection. As with everything, some do a better job of that than others.


In part I would see it as a good thing - hence my partial agreement with Hawkeye10. However, I don't think it is realistic to expect us to go actually back to the old system. The whole process should remind us that government, of necessity, has a hard time adapting on a continuous basis to changing or evolving conditions - at least as compared to the adaptability of a free market. Moreover, when government does adapt and make changes, it often fails to consider the long-term side effects of what it does.

There are some adverse trade-offs on both sides of this question - the free market has its own problems as well.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 10:35 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Watch it, my company does a lot of the environmental permitting support for several of the planned terminals

..and I do a lot cleaning up mining waste and ground water plumes from mine ops. SO, why shouldnt the ones with the needs hire the best? Hmmmmm?


We are currently in the process of re-calculating nat gas reserves in the US (and the planet) . Weve found that, with new technology, we can have significant gas production from formations that were originally considered only as source rocks or reervoir barrier rock. We can fracture and lance drill and slant drill and locate our points of search down to the nearest centimeter from surface M3 methods . Weve found out that there is significantly way more gas than we know. Right now, with JUST the reserves in the Texas and LA fields and the new plays in the MArcellus and Chatanooga and Salinas, we naow have enough gas to run EVERYTHING for the next (narly) 75 years. And this estimate is growing. Ibelieve we will experience a great gas glut and to use gas for power plants and cars is an excellent idea because we are learning more and more about Tropsching the earth to create more methane and this can be polymerized into propanes and heavier stuff. We , fortunately can live off the planetary flatulence.


As a By The Bye, back to climate change,(I dont recall seeing anyone mention this) remember that S. Fred SInger (who is a great global warming skeptic) SHARED the 2007 Nobel Prize with AL Gore. We dont seem to give ole S Fred the due he deserves .
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 10:37 am
@georgeob1,
George - is it true that GM has the Volt ready to roll, with factory planning and logistics down to the last detail, but for marketing reasons doesn't want to release it until 2011? It doesn't make sense to me, if true, seeing as they hope to operate on the taxpayers' dime between now and then.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 10:40 am
@farmerman,
Same question to you, Farmerman: why can't we just use the gas (until we can build more nuclear plants, is my hope) to operate power plants, home heating, other power requirements, and just drive electric cars?

Most of us drive within the distance/speed constraints of the Volt and similar plug-ins - those of us keeping a Lamborghini for weekends probably don't have to worry about the price of gas to begin with.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 10:45 am
@farmerman,
Fred Singer's Nobel Sham
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 10:49 am
@farmerman,
fm, I have noticed too the growing reserves and potential that are trapped in tight formations, formerly considered non-producable, but with modern drilling and completion techniques are proving to be very very substantial, far beyond what the industry thought a relatively short time ago. Every AAPG Explorer I receive seems to have another or new formation somewhere that people are excited about and pursuing. We heard about the Bakken, but apparently there are many of these all over the U.S., and probably ultimately around the world in multiples of what we have here.

I have been out of geology so long that my comments may not even sound up to speed, but thats my comment anyway. Even though you and I may not agree all the time, politically, I think opinions such as yours are very valuable in regard to informing people about the industry. Thanks.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 10:55 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

We are currently in the process of re-calculating nat gas reserves in the US (and the planet) . Weve found that, with new technology, we can have significant gas production from formations that were originally considered only as source rocks or reervoir barrier rock. We can fracture and lance drill and slant drill and locate our points of search down to the nearest centimeter from surface M3 methods . Weve found out that there is significantly way more gas than we know. Right now, with JUST the reserves in the Texas and LA fields and the new plays in the MArcellus and Chatanooga and Salinas, we naow have enough gas to run EVERYTHING for the next (narly) 75 years. And this estimate is growing. Ibelieve we will experience a great gas glut and to use gas for power plants and cars is an excellent idea because we are learning more and more about Tropsching the earth to create more methane and this can be polymerized into propanes and heavier stuff. We , fortunately can live off the planetary flatulence.

As a By The Bye, back to climate change,(I dont recall seeing anyone mention this) remember that S. Fred SInger (who is a great global warming skeptic) SHARED the 2007 Nobel Prize with AL Gore. We dont seem to give ole S Fred the due he deserves .


I have followed your commentary on new sources of natural gas on this and other threads with interest. Geology has always interested me, but it is unusual to find a geologist who can actually communicate with others. Engineers are marginally better at this.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 11:02 am
@High Seas,
High Seas wrote:

George - is it true that GM has the Volt ready to roll, with factory planning and logistics down to the last detail, but for marketing reasons doesn't want to release it until 2011? It doesn't make sense to me, if true, seeing as they hope to operate on the taxpayers' dime between now and then.


This could be - I don't know for sure. The decision to invest heavily in production is an economic bet with very high consequences. However timely and desirable the introduction of this vehicle might be, the willingness of consumers to spend their own (or borrowed) money on them is a variable that GM can't control and can predict at best with uncertain reliability.
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 11:03 am
@parados,
Parados - check the veracity of the posters you link to, always having to correct you and your sources is getting tiresome.

You quote some clown who writes >"....So, Fred, please send along your documentation to prove me wrong. By the way it looks like this. I have also taken the liberty of letting the Nobel Foundation know about this, I'm sure they'll be interested. " > and actually links to the Nobel Foundation, of Sweden, which has NO CONNECTION with the Nobel Peace Prize, awarded by the Parliament of Norway - NOT for scientific accomplishment, but for some political cause that parliament wants to promote.

Like, DUH, please try to edit your posts of the more nonsensical variety.

High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 11:05 am
@georgeob1,
Tks!
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 02:32 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

High Seas wrote:

George - is it true that GM has the Volt ready to roll, with factory planning and logistics down to the last detail, but for marketing reasons doesn't want to release it until 2011? It doesn't make sense to me, if true, seeing as they hope to operate on the taxpayers' dime between now and then.


This could be - I don't know for sure. The decision to invest heavily in production is an economic bet with very high consequences. However timely and desirable the introduction of this vehicle might be, the willingness of consumers to spend their own (or borrowed) money on them is a variable that GM can't control and can predict at best with uncertain reliability.

The Volt is not the saviour of GM, and they know it. And if there were not problems with rolling out the volt, I think it would have been rolled out by now. Likely problems with the batteries and who knows what else? And the market is just not there, to the extent that some people may believe, certainly not now that the price of gasoline has decreased so much. I do not think people would be in the buying mood for such a car right now. And the worst thing to happen would be putting out a car that turns out to be a lemon, with endless recalls.

There are opinions out there, but this one is interesting:
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/005333.html
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 07:06 pm
@High Seas,
Quote:
Same question to you, Farmerman: why can't we just use the gas (until we can build more nuclear plants, is my hope) to operate power plants, home heating, other power requirements, and just drive electric cars?


aybe georgeob can verify this but Im aware of a number of combined power plants run b y nat gas. Some of my guys did a lot of the geotech for siting a large (850 megawatt) gas fired unit along the Susquehanna. The preence of gas and water made for an ideal location for a combined ystem plant. Gas plants are amazingly more compact, and environmentally acceptable with a very small total footprint wrt soil, water, and air. I like em just for their "neato" factor. One that we worked on was located next to a forst preserve and , with the berms and landscape design, was actually quite attractive. Its been in ops for about 3 yearsa nd is growing into a final eco- succession look.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 07:14 pm
@High Seas,
I would love to see your evidence of the Nobel being awarded to Singer then if you have some.
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 07:19 pm
@High Seas,
High Seas- You wrote:

****************************************************************
Parados - check the veracity of the posters you link to, always having to correct you and your sources is getting tiresome.

You quote some clown who writes >"....So, Fred, please send along your documentation to prove me wrong. By the way it looks like this. I have also taken the liberty of letting the Nobel Foundation know about this, I'm sure they'll be interested. " > and actually links to the Nobel Foundation, of Sweden, which has NO CONNECTION with the Nobel Peace Prize, awarded by the Parliament of Norway - NOT for scientific accomplishment, but for some political cause that parliament wants to promote.

Like, DUH, please try to edit your posts of the more nonsensical variety.

******************************************************************

Parados continues to write about global warming. He has proven he doesn't know very much about the subject. If you wish to see just how superficial and unscientific his posts are, rebut some of them and see if he can meet your concerns. He won't.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 07:23 pm
@High Seas,
Maybe you should check your facts High Seas

http://nobelprize.org/prize_awarders/
Quote:
Who selects the Nobel Laureates? In his last will and testament, Alfred Nobel specifically designated the institutions responsible for the prizes he wished to be established: The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences for the Nobel Prize in Physics and Chemistry, Karolinska Institute for the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine, the Swedish Academy for the Nobel Prize in Literature, and a Committee of five persons to be elected by the Norwegian Parliament (Storting) for the Nobel Peace Prize. In 1968, the Sveriges Riksbank established the Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economics in Memory of Alfred Nobel. The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences was given the task to select the Economics Prize Laureates starting in 1969.


It seems the Nobel Foundation has a very real connection with the Nobel Peace Prize.

You will note that I am quoting from the same website you said had no connection to the Peace prize.

It seems you are the one that is incorrect High Seas.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 07:24 pm
@genoves,
And you prove even with a new screen name you are still an idiot. It makes it easy to spot you when you rename yourself.
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 07:28 pm
I read Parados' link--The best comment of them all on his link is below:

With regard to Singer's comment:

quote


Submitted by Zog (not verified) on Mon, 2008-05-26 15:59.
Singer should know that it's useless to expose tight-assed, introverted warmists to irony or sarcasm. Such things are foreign to their prissy little world.

end of quote
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2009 07:38 pm
@genoves,
The irony is that you don't know the difference.
 

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