Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

McTag wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
McTag wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:

This, however, is not due to lack of food or the capability of producing it. It is mostly due to despotic governments that have no interest in the welfare of the people they govern. World hunger will be essentially eliminated at such time as democracy, capitalism, and free trade catches on around the world.

Airily dealing with the world's problems in a couple of sentences. One sentence to sum up the problem; one sentence to formulate a solution. Impressive.

My two sentences are conclusions based on much larger bodies of opinion and research, but I'll stand by my opinion that these conclusions are both correct.

Ah, despotic governments and "warlords", is it?

Nothing to do with the World Bank, cash crops for unrealistic loans, the arms trade from the West to unstable regions, dictators being propped up by the West to keep the flow of raw materials coming, logging in Central America and Indonesia for illegal timber trade (free trade? Capitalism a solution?) Forest clearing for beef and soya in Brazil (let's blame the warlords for that) factory fishing for fishmeal and fertilizer (plenty f's there) and drought and flood due to unstable weather/ industrial activity....

It's good at this Christmastide that we can blame that on despotic foreigners. Enjoy, it's nothing to do with us after all.

What I said had absolutely nothing to do with what you said. Nor did I use any ad hominem references. I also did not deal in absolutes of which you seem to be more fond than I. As for CI, when he can show me the humanitarian organizations he has worked with and the effort he has put out to solve the problem, then he might have some credibility to criticize me.

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What has my involvement with humanitarian organizations have to do with your simplistic solutions to solve world hunger?

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If you think there is anything simple about creating democracy, capitalism, and free trade out of despotic governments, C.I., you are quite deluded and out of touch with reality. Surely you don't think that.

But since I do have some first hand knowledge in this area, I think it would be useful to know something about it and the problems involved before you criticize me personally. Not that this has ever stopped you in the past.

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fox wrote: If you think there is anything simple about creating democracy, capitalism, and free trade out of despotic governments, C.I., you are quite deluded and out of touch with reality. Surely you don't think that.

And in a previous post fox wrote: World hunger will be essentially eliminated at such time as democracy, capitalism, and free trade catches on around the world.

You are the one making a claim about solving world hunger. I called it "simplistic." You are the one out of touch with reality.

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Foxfyre wrote:

If you think there is anything simple about creating democracy, capitalism, and free trade out of despotic governments, C.I., you are quite deluded and out of touch with reality. Surely you don't think that.

But since I do have some first hand knowledge in this area, I think it would be useful to know something about it and the problems involved before you criticize me personally. Not that this has ever stopped you in the past.

Okay. From global warming to hunger and from there to politcal philosophy.

You might be astonished, Foxfyre, but none of the German (and I suppose European as well) humanitarian agencies has "capitalism" and "free trade" on their banners.

I don't habe first hand knowledge, since I've never been in those regions, and my knowledge is narrowed to Christian aid agencies and Fair Trade - but especially these would never try to stop hunger with capitalism and free trade.

(I think this would be a nice new topic, especially when you report about your expeiences abroad.)

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cicerone imposter wrote:

fox wrote: If you think there is anything simple about creating democracy, capitalism, and free trade out of despotic governments, C.I., you are quite deluded and out of touch with reality. Surely you don't think that.

And in a previous post fox wrote: World hunger will be essentially eliminated at such time as democracy, capitalism, and free trade catches on around the world.

You are the one making a claim about solving world hunger. I called it "simplistic." You are the one out of touch with reality.

Okay CI. I'll bite. Show me first any country practicing democracy, capitalism, and free trade that has significant instances of hunger among its population.l

Second, show me any instance in which a country was successfully transformed into a democratic country practicing capitalism and free trade in which the conditions for the people was not significantly improved.

Finally, give me a clear, reasoned, rationale for why, if it could be accomplished, that all countries practicing democracy, capitalism, and free trade would not essentially eliminate world hunger.

Take your time. I'll wait for a coherent response or an apology. Or you can resort to some nonsensical statement pretending that it gets you off the hook.

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fox, But I won't bite. Your questions attempts to put the burden of your ridiculous solutions on me; ain't gonna happen.

You are simplistic to the core; you must learn about the realities of today and yesturday, and not project those realities into tomorrow just because there are some examples that may be true.

You haven't provided a coherent response to your own solution for world hunger. Let's hear it.

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I believe I have CI. And as usual you went with the insult and duck option. That's cool. I expected it. Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year anyway.

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Foxfyre wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
fox wrote: If you think there is anything simple about creating democracy, capitalism, and free trade out of despotic governments, C.I., you are quite deluded and out of touch with reality. Surely you don't think that.

And in a previous post fox wrote: World hunger will be essentially eliminated at such time as democracy, capitalism, and free trade catches on around the world.

You are the one making a claim about solving world hunger. I called it "simplistic." You are the one out of touch with reality.

Okay CI. I'll bite. Show me first any country practicing democracy, capitalism, and free trade that has significant instances of hunger among its population.l

Second, show me any instance in which a country was successfully transformed into a democratic country practicing capitalism and free trade in which the conditions for the people was not significantly improved.

Finally, give me a clear, reasoned, rationale for why, if it could be accomplished, that all countries practicing democracy, capitalism, and free trade would not essentially eliminate world hunger.

Take your time. I'll wait for a coherent response or an apology. Or you can resort to some nonsensical statement pretending that it gets you off the hook.

You seem to have completely missed the point.

Third world countries are exploited to feed the likes of USA and Europe.
Capitalism operates like that.
Read about how bananas are produced, and the effect of fruit monoculture cartels in Central America, coffee production, soya production and its effect on indigenous peoples.
Dictatorships in the Americas are supported by your "democracy-loving" government partly for that reason.
You write the most amazing nonsense. Sorry if that seems like an ad-hominem attack.

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McTag wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
fox wrote: If you think there is anything simple about creating democracy, capitalism, and free trade out of despotic governments, C.I., you are quite deluded and out of touch with reality. Surely you don't think that.

And in a previous post fox wrote: World hunger will be essentially eliminated at such time as democracy, capitalism, and free trade catches on around the world.

You are the one making a claim about solving world hunger. I called it "simplistic." You are the one out of touch with reality.

Okay CI. I'll bite. Show me first any country practicing democracy, capitalism, and free trade that has significant instances of hunger among its population.l

Second, show me any instance in which a country was successfully transformed into a democratic country practicing capitalism and free trade in which the conditions for the people was not significantly improved.

Finally, give me a clear, reasoned, rationale for why, if it could be accomplished, that all countries practicing democracy, capitalism, and free trade would not essentially eliminate world hunger.

Take your time. I'll wait for a coherent response or an apology. Or you can resort to some nonsensical statement pretending that it gets you off the hook.

You seem to have completely missed the point.

Third world countries are exploited to feed the likes of USA and Europe.
Capitalism operates like that.
Read about how bananas are produced, and the effect of fruit monoculture cartels in Central America, coffee production, soya production and its effect on indigenous peoples.
Dictatorships in the Americas are supported by your "democracy-loving" government partly for that reason.
You write the most amazing nonsense. Sorry if that seems like an ad-hominem attack.

Amazing nonsense perhaps, but could you show me any democratc country practicing capitalism and free trade where these atrocious situations are occuring with the result of significant hunger among the people? Again, take your time. I'll wait.

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fox, We have hunger in the US of A. Your reality of this world doesn't exist.

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Hunger and Food Insecurity in the United States

One of the most disturbing and extraordinary aspects of life in this very wealthy country is the persistence of hunger. The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) reports, based on a national U.S. Census Bureau survey of households representative of the U.S. population, that in 2004 11.9 percent of all U.S. households were "food insecure" because of lack of resources. Of the 13.5 million households that were food insecure, 4.4 million suffered from food insecurity that was so severe that USDA's very conservative measure classified them as "hungry."

Since 1999, food insecurity has increased by 3 million households, including 1.4 million households with children. In 2004, 38.2 million people lived in households experiencing food insecurity, compared to 33.6 million in 2001 and 31 million in 1999. See FRAC's Press Release and a link to the full report: Household Food Security in the United States, 2004.

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It is clear that Cicerone Imposter has not read the literature on Hunger in the USA. If he had, he would notice that almost all the literature says that "Hunger" and "Hunger ANXIETY" exists.

The latter is the operative term and is usually due to ignorance or the misappropration of resources on the part of parents.

The USA is filled with all types of sites which give out huge bags of groceries to ANYONE who goes to the site with a card showing they are receiving welfare. I worked in one of these sites as a volunteer last year.

Cicerone Imposter apparently knows NOTHING about the places where HUNGER is supposed to be endemic in the USA. If he were to go to the inner cities of the USA he would find a large number of mom and pop stores which sell all types of food stuffs( with an emphasis on junk food and candy) to the students in the elementary schools in areas which, IF YOU ASK THE BLEEDING HEARTS, are just filled with poor starving people( who often trade stamps for their next fix or another bottle)

I have searched diligently on the web to find stories concering the demise of people due to STARVATION. I could find only a few and then the starvation was due to parental abuse.

Cicerone Imposter has only to go to an inner city school and to view the students. They receive two well balanced meals from the school( if they show up for breakfast and they would if they were starving) courtesy of the governmental "free lunch" program.

Hunger in America. What nonsense!

What about Hunger in places like Africa?

Sure, but it is not because of US policies. I can find any number of cites which show that the monies are skimmed off by dictators or profiteers.

Perhaps, CI has never heard of the "Oil for Food" Scams?

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Some people on this site show a kind of arrogant "morality" that would make me violently ill if it wasn't two days until Christmas Eve.

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Mortkat, "Hunger" is the operative term. You must learn to define words correctly, or you'll never understand what you read.

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Deadcat is like that!

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Why don't you try to respond to the substance of my post, CI, instead of Bloviating? You say NOTHING. I gave some examples. Show why they are not correct.

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I waited a while before I decided to enter this post. So Walter Hinteler is becoming ill because of "morality"?

Not as ill as the parents of Navy Diver Robert Stethem.

Source- Chicago Tribune-

WASHINGTON PROTESTS THE RELEASE OF MOHAMMED ALI HAMIDI, A LEBANESE MILITANT WHO SERVED NEALRY 19 YEARS OF A LIFE SENTENCE FOR THE ATTACK ON A TWA JET AND THE KILLING OF US NAVY DIVER ROBERT STETHAM.

The German government disclosed Tuesday that it recently freed a Hezbollah member WHO WAS CONVICTED of hijacking a TWA airliner in 1985, allowing him to return to his native Lebanon despite LONG STANDING REQUESTS FROM THE UNITED STATES TO HAND HIM OVER FOR TRIAL.

Morality????

The Germans are still trying to make up for the Holocaust but, in doing so, forget about Justice.

Take the mote out of your eye, Walter Hinteler.

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I'm sure you know about the resp. laws which are used to release prisoners.

Quote:

"We did, at senior levels at the U.S. government, contact the German authorities to emphasize that we thought it was important that he serve out his entire term, but we did so with a full understanding that under German law it was highly likely that he was going to be released," State Department Sean McCormack said.

source: AP

Of course, you might want to change our law about the execution of a sentence ("Strafvollstreckungsrecht" StVR).
If you are a German citizen, you can ask your local MdB to work on this.

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Mortkat wrote:

The Germans are still trying to make up for the Holocaust but, in doing so, forget about Justice.

Take the mote out of your eye, Walter Hinteler.

Goethe wrote in "Götz von Berlichen" a remarkable sentence: "Leck mich am Arsch" which I won´t translate, but I think, it fits here.

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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

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