Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

i promise to read the editorials published in the reverend moon's "washington times" , but i can't promise to take them seriously .
hbg

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hamburger wrote:

i promise to read the editorials published in the reverend moon's "washington times" , but i can't promise to take them seriously .
hbg

Out of pure curiosity... what articles would you take seriously? What sources do you consider trustworthy?

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Foxfyre wrote:

hamburger wrote:
OUR NEW SPOKESPERSON FOR ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCE
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Quote:
Sun Myung Moon is the leader of the Unification Church, which he founded on May 1, 1954 in Seoul, South Korea. Moon is also the founder and leader of the global Unification Movement which owns, operates or subsidizes many for-profit corporations and other organizations involved in political, mass-media, and other activities.

He is well-known for holding Blessing ceremonies, which are often called "mass weddings", and for founding The Washington Times newspaper in 1982.[1]

Moon has said he is the Second Coming of Christ, the "Savior", "returning Lord", and "True Parent". He teaches that all people should become perfected like Jesus and like himself, and that as such he "appears in the world as the substantial body of God Himself." [2][3]

Moon has been among the most controversial modern religious leaders,[4][5] and has been widely criticized.

And this related really to global warming how?

An unsigned editorial in Moon's Washington Times probably ain't where a sane person would turn for scientific reference materials.

Here's a cute item...

Quote:

EPA Cautious Global Warming.

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: March 27, 2008
Filed at 3:17 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP -- The Environmental Protection Agency is making clear it will not be rushed into a decision on whether to regulate emissions linked to global warming, as directed by the Supreme Court.

EPA Administrator Stephen Johnson told key members of Congress on Thursday that regulating carbon dioxide -- a leading greenhouse gas -- ''could affect many (emission) sources beyond just cars and trucks'' and needs to be closely examined before a decision is made.

Johnson said he will begin a formal process soon to examine the issue by asking for public comment on the implications of CO2 regulation on other air rules. The Supreme Court in April of last year held that carbon dioxide is a pollutant. It directed the EPA to determine if it endangers public health and welfare. Critics have accused Johnson of stalling on the politically sensitive issue.

What makes it so cute? A number of aspects.

Acting in contravention of a Supreme Court decision...that's cute.

But our Republican EPA Stephen Johnson is an altogether cute fellow.

Quote:

Forwarding a direct attack on state's rights in order to forward coroporate interests...that's cute. Ignoring the scientific research carried out by the department's scientists...cute as heck.

Quote:

During his Senate confirmation hearing, Johnson was criticized for his support of using human subjects in pesticide testing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_L._Johnson

Advocating using humans for pestiside testing...ya just gotta find that cute.

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Gasp. The Washington Times reported an Associated Press story? Or an AP story was reported in the Washington Times?

Blatham must be unaware, however, that the President and direct supervisor of the EPA Director is on Blatham's side in this debate. The administration is pushing a lot of the AGW agenda pretty hard to the dismay of what may be more informed and level heads.

Has anybody asked why the EPA is trying to block certain AGW issues in the states? Has it been petitioned to do so? Why? Does anybody know? I don't really trust the AP to explain it competently.

Probably if this had been a Washington Times originated story, we might have received useful information to actually make an informed judgment on that. The Times doesn't do that bad a job in straight reporting. It is definitely tilted right on its editorial page.

I also would have to see what was actually being proposed in that pesticides study to judge any evil purpose in it too. I am pretty sure Blatham (and Wikipedia), intentionally or unintentionally, could be presenting that in a distorted matter. The fact is the guy shelved the proposed study--I didn't see that he was proposing to use kids as guinea pigs but simply wanted to know if pesticides were negatively affecting kids, not a bad idea actually given the wide use of pesticides--still that must count for nothing in Blatham's world.

But how the poor Moonies got dragged into this still sort of is unexplainable.

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parados wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

http://www.biocab.org/Comparison_Solar_Irradiance_Espa_ol.jpg
Temperature & CO2 & Irradiation

It is interesting because you will notice that the solar radiation has not increased by 1w/m^2 since 1975.

...

It is interesting to me, because the normalized rates of increase in temperature and solar irradiance since about 1650 are about the same, while the normalized rate of increase in CO2 since 1750 is somewhat greater than both.

http://www.biocab.org/Comparison_Solar_Irradiance_Espa_ol.jpg

Temperature & CO2 & Irradiation

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This graph is interesting to me, because it shows two things that I find interesting:

1. A 287.69°K (i.e., 287.06°K + 0.63°C) peak average global temperature occurred about a 1000 years before the current one of 287.6646°K (i.e., 287.06°K + 0.6046°C)

2. The rate of increase of CO2 in the atmosphere since 1750 is greater than the rate of average global temperature increase over the same period.

http://www.biocab.org/Calentamiento_Global_en_la_Edad_Media.jpg

Temperature and CO2

Please remember: I have been disputing the theory that humans have caused almost all the 0.6365°K (i.e., 2005 = 287.6646°K less 1975 = 287.0281°K) increase in average global temperature 1975 to 2005.

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ican711nm wrote:

Please remember: I have been disputing the theory that humans have caused almost all the 0.6365°K (i.e., 2005 = 287.6646°K less 1975 = 287.0281°K) increase in average global temperature 1975 to 2005.

You have only been disputing that almost all was caused by humans?

That seems to be a lot different from your previous statements about humans not causing any of it or very little of it. Are you moving your position to admitting that humans may have caused 50% or more?

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http://www.pmodwrc.ch/tsi/composite/pics/comp06_ext_d41_61_0803.png

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Oh, good, well that worked. Watch out, ican, I just figured out how to post images here, and we're gonna get some ACCURATE graphs now, instead of that Willie Soon crap. That one, for example, is just one of the many that indicate that the last solar minimum confirmed that TSI is DEcreasing.

Parados, Diest, I know from your posts that you have access to a lot of accurate data as well. If you want to join the graphfest, the hamsters have posted the way to do it, which is where I just got this:

Find the graph you want on the web. Right click on it. Click "Properties", which will give you the URL of that specific graph. Copy the URL down. In the "Post reply" box on a2k, (where i'm using URL to mean the specific one for that graph), type [img]URL[/img] and it'll pop in. Ain't technology grand.

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Yes, posting graphs is great, except I got a tongue lashing from some liberal one time for stretching the screen so that you have to scroll back and forth to read posts. This problem occurs if a graphic is too wide in terms of pixels for some people's screens. Mine is currently a 15", so that problem is showing up on this page. As long as it doesn't happen all the time, I can live with it.

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ah, so the scrolling is ican's fault. just another one on his account.

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parados wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

Please remember: I have been disputing the theory that humans have caused almost all the 0.6365°K (i.e., 2005 = 287.6646°K less 1975 = 287.0281°K) increase in average global temperature 1975 to 2005.

You have only been disputing that almost all was caused by humans?

That seems to be a lot different from your previous statements about humans not causing any of it or very little of it. Are you moving your position to admitting that humans may have caused 50% or more?

I previously have been claiming that humans have made a trivial contribution to global warming, and I defined trivial to be 1% or less. I thought you would be able to tell that was equivalent to: 100% - 1% = 99% (i.e., almost all) of the global warming has been caused by something other than humans (e.g., solar irradiation). But I guess I expect too much of you.

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username wrote:

...
Watch out, ican, I just figured out how to post images here, and we're gonna get some ACCURATE graphs now, instead of that Willie Soon crap.
...

Who or what is "that Willie Soon crap?"

My principal source for graphs is:

Quote:

http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm

Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide

...

CONCLUSIONS

There are no experimental data to support the hypothesis that increases in human hydrocarbon use or in atmospheric carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases are causing or can be expected to cause unfavorable changes in global temperatures, weather, or landscape. There is no reason to limit human production of CO2, CH4, and other minor greenhouse gases as has been proposed (82,83,97,123).
We also need not worry about environmental calamities even if the current natural warming trend continues. The Earth has been much warmer during the past 3,000 years without catastrophic effects. Warmer weather extends growing seasons and generally improves the habitability of colder regions.

As coal, oil, and natural gas are used to feed and lift from poverty vast numbers of people across the globe, more CO2 will be released into the atmosphere. This will help to maintain and improve the health, longevity, prosperity, and productivity of all people.

The United States and other countries need to produce more energy, not less. The most practical, economical, and environmentally sound methods available are hydrocarbon and nuclear technologies.

Human use of coal, oil, and natural gas has not harmfully warmed the Earth, and the extrapolation of current trends shows that it will not do so in the foreseeable future. The CO2 produced does, however, accelerate the growth rates of plants and also permits plants to grow in drier regions. Animal life, which depends upon plants, also flourishes, and the diversity of plant and animal life is increased.

Human activities are producing part of the rise in CO2 in the atmosphere. Mankind is moving the carbon in coal, oil, and natural gas from below ground to the atmosphere, where it is available for conversion into living things. We are living in an increasingly lush environment of plants and animals as a result of this CO2 increase. Our children will therefore enjoy an Earth with far more plant and animal life than that with which we now are blessed.

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Coolest Winter Since 2001 for U.S., Globe

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2008/20080313_coolest.html

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Ican711nm - Did you read your sources?

Willie Soon appears numerous times.

T
K
O

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Diest TKO wrote:

Ican711nm - Did you read your sources?

Willie Soon appears numerous times.

T
K
O

More of your pathetic attempts at rebuttal!

You can't rebut what Soon actually wrote so you rebut Soon's appearances in 7 out of 132 references.

Yes *7out of 132 references mention W. Soon. So what? I ask again: Who or what is "that Willie Soon crap?"

Quote:

REFERENCES

1. Robinson, A. B., Baliunas, S. L., Soon, W., and Robinson, Z. W. (1998) Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons 3, 171-178.

*2. Soon, W., Baliunas, S. L., Robinson, A. B., and Robinson, Z. W. (1999) Climate Res. 13, 149-164.

3. Keigwin, L. D. (1996) Science 274, 1504-1508. ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/contributions_by_author/keigwin1996/

4. Oerlemanns, J. (2005) Science 308, 675-677.

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0 Replies

Fact: You asked who Willie Soon was.
Fact: He appears several times in your sources.

It's just funny, that's all. BTW, thanks for the normalized graph you posted a while ago. Was there any that additionally included deforrestation and land ice by chance? Even better would be the raw data for any of the graph's you've posted. I want to see if the time rate of change is constant, or if the linear relation is only present using average values over a set amount of time.

Thanks
K
O

0 Replies

Diest TKO wrote:

Fact: You asked who Willie Soon was.
Fact: He appears several times in your sources.

It's just funny, that's all. BTW, thanks for the normalized graph you posted a while ago. Was there any that additionally included deforrestation and land ice by chance? Even better would be the raw data for any of the graph's you've posted. I want to see if the time rate of change is constant, or if the linear relation is only present using average values over a set amount of time.

Thanks
K
O

I did not ask who Willie Soon was.

username wrote: "Watch out, ican, I just figured out how to post images here, and we're gonna get some ACCURATE graphs now, instead of that Willie Soon crap."

So I asked: Who or what is "that Willie Soon crap?"

You really ought to do your own research instead of asking me to do it.

0 Replies

Who wrote the paper you keep citing, ican? Sheesh. He and Sallie Baliunas and various accomplices have rewritten it several times since the late 90s. They've improved the level of skill of their graphics a bit since the first time. That's about all that can be said for their efforts. They've gotten total sh*t for misusing proxies that dealt with moisture as if they dealt with temperature over time, in a rather unprecedented show of ire by the researchers who compiled those proxies in the first place. They've caused a slew of editors at Eos to resign in protest of the publication because they felt it was a sweetheart deal which didn't meet the journal's standards for science. I believe the version you're using appeared in that well-known climate research journal, The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons. (seriously, they "published" it there. Needless to say it has NO reputation in climate circles).

It's crap for many reasons. One, which you seem to be ignoring, is that TSI is not increasing. Since we've had accurate measurement, i.e. since the satellites went up in 1977, through 2007, TSI is not increasing. For you to rely on Soon et al's sourceless graphs, as you do, rather than the accurate data, like NASA and the Max Planck Institute, which show no increase, is totally wacked. Find a REPUTABLE source that uses data through the latest minimum in 2007 that maintains it's increasing, and tell me why one should ignore the many sources that say there's been no increase over 30 years and I'll listen to your arguments.s Until then, it's Willie Soon crap.

Also you might pay attention to the several analyses, using different sets of data and different methods of analysis, which essentially agree that there was (not surprisingly) a fair degree of agreement between the solar proxies and temperature rise over the last 1or 2 hundred years, depending on what they examine, but over the last thirty years that agreement breaks down, and a combination of anthropogenic sources as the major factor and solar data from satellite measurement provides the best fit with the research data.

0 Replies

ican711nm wrote:

Who or what is "that Willie Soon crap?"

ican711nm wrote:

I did not ask who Willie Soon was.

Want some checkers?

T
K
O

0 Replies

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