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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Feb, 2008 03:18 pm
Obviously Europeans have a different appoach to such (as well as Americans in European courts).

I'd thought that ISBNs and trademarks were regarded the same all over the world.

Sorry for giving my misinterpretation.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Feb, 2008 04:21 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Obviously Europeans have a different appoach to such (as well as Americans in European courts).

I'd thought that ISBNs and trademarks were regarded the same all over the world.

Sorry for giving my misinterpretation.

You weren't incorrect Walter. Copyright does protect page layout.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Feb, 2008 05:45 pm
parados posted :

Quote:
You weren't incorrect Walter. Copyright does protect page layout.


which walter obviously didn't know ! the sneaky so-and-so trying to play the innocent AGAIN :wink: .
hbg
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Feb, 2008 08:15 pm
I do not believe copyright protects page layout or any other method of production. Copyright protects content/authorship only. A particularly distinctive layout plus content distinctly identifying a particular product or service could be subject to rules governing trademark protection, but if general layout techniques, use of color, use of uncopyrighted graphics, etc. were copyrighted, virtually every newspaper in the country would be in violation not to mention business websites that copy each other mercilessly.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Feb, 2008 09:31 pm
Typefaces cannot be copyrighted, unless they are newly designed by the user themselves, which I find highly unlikely. Unique designs can possibly be copyrighted, but how unique is it really? We aren't talking about logos are we? Content can be copyrighted, but not typefaces or run of the mill designs or page layout, good grief, that is ridiculous.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Feb, 2008 09:48 pm
Diest TKO wrote:
okie wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
okie wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:


If 20,000yrs ago the Global average temp was only 9 degree lower, then that meant that prior to this century the global average has gone up on average 0.045 degrees per century.

If an increase of 1.3 degrees over the last century is not "alarming" then you've got a screw loose or you simply do not care.

T
K
O

Spectacular math you illustrate, Diest, but where do you get the idea that global temperatures warmed at an average, thus apparently implied constant rate of .045 degrees per century..... and for 20,000 years?

I'll honor none of your requests until you retract your comment.

T
K
O

Now that seems like a very creative way of admitting that you do not know the answer to okie's question! Surprised

By the way, the above 3000+ year sea temperature graph was for the Sargasso Sea.

No. You are incorrect. I'd love nothing more than to answer. All okie has to do is retract his/her false statement. highlighted in red above is the worst math assumption I have ever read.

T
K
O
No need to retract it, diest. You implied by your calculation that the temperature went up that amount per century, simply because that was the average, and I pointed out your mistake. You implied a false assumption.

You should put fewer words in my mouth and put more marbles in yours sir.

Averages do not imply a constant change with respect to time. I can drive form New york to San Fransisco and record my average speed the entire trip. I can tell you my average speed, but nowhere in that statement will I have implied anything about a constant speed. You've got two statements to withdraw now.

T
K
O

If I drove to San Francisco from New York last year, my average speed would be a pretty low figure in miles per hour if, it was averaged over the entire year, akin to your 20,000 year average. Thus whenever you got in your car and went 60 mph, you imply that in comparison the speed would be very alarming. I pointed out your stupid comparison, which it was, diest, as obviously 60 mph is not an alarming speed, nor do I think the current climate change is anywhere near alarming as you claim it to be. It was a false comparison, plain and simple. If you are the scientist you claim to be, I would not recommend anyone hire you to do any work, and I hope our tax dollars are not supporting your work.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Feb, 2008 09:49 pm
Being on a committee charged with upgrading our local church's website, we all have been looking at the work designed by a number of prospective webmasters. Some do manage to create uniquely different layouts for different clients, but for most they tend to design a web site in the same way for all including preference for certain colors, use of graphics, type faces, back ground, etc. Just like I use a preferred layout and style for pamphlets, flyers, brochures, newsletters etc. that I design.

It isn't hard to believe that Dr. Seitz used what was familiar to him in a design for the Petition Project with no sense of any kind that it would be identified with anything other than the Petition Project.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Feb, 2008 10:18 pm
okie wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
okie wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
okie wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:


If 20,000yrs ago the Global average temp was only 9 degree lower, then that meant that prior to this century the global average has gone up on average 0.045 degrees per century.

If an increase of 1.3 degrees over the last century is not "alarming" then you've got a screw loose or you simply do not care.

T
K
O

Spectacular math you illustrate, Diest, but where do you get the idea that global temperatures warmed at an average, thus apparently implied constant rate of .045 degrees per century..... and for 20,000 years?

I'll honor none of your requests until you retract your comment.

T
K
O

Now that seems like a very creative way of admitting that you do not know the answer to okie's question! Surprised

By the way, the above 3000+ year sea temperature graph was for the Sargasso Sea.

No. You are incorrect. I'd love nothing more than to answer. All okie has to do is retract his/her false statement. highlighted in red above is the worst math assumption I have ever read.

T
K
O
No need to retract it, diest. You implied by your calculation that the temperature went up that amount per century, simply because that was the average, and I pointed out your mistake. You implied a false assumption.

You should put fewer words in my mouth and put more marbles in yours sir.

Averages do not imply a constant change with respect to time. I can drive form New york to San Fransisco and record my average speed the entire trip. I can tell you my average speed, but nowhere in that statement will I have implied anything about a constant speed. You've got two statements to withdraw now.

T
K
O

If I drove to San Francisco from New York last year, my average speed would be a pretty low figure in miles per hour if, it was averaged over the entire year, akin to your 20,000 year average. Thus whenever you got in your car and went 60 mph, you imply that in comparison the speed would be very alarming. I pointed out your stupid comparison, which it was, diest, as obviously 60 mph is not an alarming speed, nor do I think the current climate change is anywhere near alarming as you claim it to be. It was a false comparison, plain and simple. If you are the scientist you claim to be, I would not recommend anyone hire you to do any work, and I hope our tax dollars are not supporting your work.

Rolling Eyes
You miss.

You still have two statements to retract.

1) That anyone believes that CO2 is the exclusive cause of CC/AGW.
2) That an average implies a constant change with respect to time.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Feb, 2008 10:31 pm
Diest TKO wrote:
[
You still have two statements to retract.

1) That anyone believes that CO2 is the exclusive cause of CC/AGW.
2) That an average implies a constant change with respect to time.

T
K
O


The first proposition is probably true -- it takes only one and, even a graduate Aerospace Engineer cannot prove that no one thinks that.

The second is certainly false - but it is a mathematical detail that is quite peripheral to the argument.

Seems like a lot of sound and fury over very little. However I do like the look of these eighth order nested quotes. Nice geometric patterns.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Feb, 2008 10:42 pm
georgeob1 wrote:


Seems like a lot of sound and fury over very little. However I do like the look of these eighth order nested quotes. Nice geometric patterns.

I am not going to quote him back again, I am tired of cluttering up the thread with trying to point out something simple. I will let Diest become "very alarmed" when the temperature drops several degrees overnight, because after all the average temperature has dropped alot less than that in a few thousand years. He can be "very alarmed" if he wants to be, but for myself, I aint going to worry about it.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Feb, 2008 10:56 pm
Georgeob1 - Engineer or not, the burden is not on me to provide that anyone has not said anything. If okie wants to misquote the beliefs of those who believe man has a significant influence on the climate, then okie needs to back it up, or shut up. I think you can guess my preference.

Okie - Your brand of dishonesty is of pure annoyance. You quote "very alarming" as if I introduced the notion of alarm to the dialogue. Rolling Eyes Buy more marbles.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 08:42 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Being on a committee charged with upgrading our local church's website, we all have been looking at the work designed by a number of prospective webmasters. Some do manage to create uniquely different layouts for different clients, but for most they tend to design a web site in the same way for all including preference for certain colors, use of graphics, type faces, back ground, etc. Just like I use a preferred layout and style for pamphlets, flyers, brochures, newsletters etc. that I design.

It isn't hard to believe that Dr. Seitz used what was familiar to him in a design for the Petition Project with no sense of any kind that it would be identified with anything other than the Petition Project.

Seitz didn't do the fake article. He only wrote the letter that went with it. Your argument has no bearing on the fake article since Seitz NEVER wrote it or laid it out.

If the design isn't original then yes, it isn't covered by copyright. If the design is associated with a particular magazine or other publication then yes, it probably is covered by copyright.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 09:13 am
parados wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Being on a committee charged with upgrading our local church's website, we all have been looking at the work designed by a number of prospective webmasters. Some do manage to create uniquely different layouts for different clients, but for most they tend to design a web site in the same way for all including preference for certain colors, use of graphics, type faces, back ground, etc. Just like I use a preferred layout and style for pamphlets, flyers, brochures, newsletters etc. that I design.

It isn't hard to believe that Dr. Seitz used what was familiar to him in a design for the Petition Project with no sense of any kind that it would be identified with anything other than the Petition Project.

Seitz didn't do the fake article. He only wrote the letter that went with it. Your argument has no bearing on the fake article since Seitz NEVER wrote it or laid it out.

If the design isn't original then yes, it isn't covered by copyright. If the design is associated with a particular magazine or other publication then yes, it probably is covered by copyright.


No, it isn't covered by copyright unless the design is clearly a protected trademark of a licensed entity. A magazine or website or newspaper or stationary layout cannot be copyrighted.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 10:08 am
Foxfyre wrote:

No, it isn't covered by copyright unless the design is clearly a protected trademark of a licensed entity. A magazine or website or newspaper or stationary layout cannot be copyrighted.


http://i25.tinypic.com/2ls8wfm.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/vpceg2.jpg

"Copyright applies to computing and the internet in the same way as material in other media. ... This is an automatic right ..."
"Published editions of literary works such as magazines, anthologies of poems and so on, where there may be more than one copyright owner, may afford copyright protection in their own right for the typographical arrangement of the edition. Copyright in your typographical edition lasts for 25 years." Source: UK Intellectual Property Office (= the operating name of the UK Patent Office)
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 01:09 pm
We're not talking about content, Walter. Of course content can be copyrighted and can be protected under copyright laws by implication as well as certification.

We are talking about layouts and formats. These cannot be copyrighted except in such form as constitutes a registered trademark. Layout and formats of newspapers, magazines, books, websites, etc. cannot be copyrighted.
0 Replies
 
miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 03:08 pm
Funny all the fuss about F. Seitz considering all the key GW scientists on the pay of the greenies.

Example:
"Tony Socci, who played a significant role in the Singer affair, is now the spokesman of the American Meteorological Society in Washington. John Firor, who was for many years the administrative director of the National Center for Atmospheric Research, was also the chairman of the board of the Environmental Defense Fund. R. Napier, president of the World Wildlife Federation - UK, is also chairman of the board of the UK Meteorological Office (which includes the Hadley Center).

Jim Hansen is closely associated with Michael Oppenheimer who was long the Barbara Streisand Scientist at Environmental Defense, and, apparently Michael was on the EPA review panel that recommended the funding of Hansen to get into climate modeling (after NASA had cut funds for the New York lab). Oppenheimer, despite only being a minor author of 3-4 peer reviewed scientific papers on climate, is now a professor at Princeton University. It would be interesting to know who endowed his professorship."

Source: Richard Lindzen
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 03:29 pm
How do you know that those are Greens?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 04:23 pm
SOMEBODY BETTER FIX THE SUN

http://www.oism.org/pproject/Slides/Presentation/Slide1.png
A 3000+ year look at Sargossa sea level temperatures up to 2006

http://www.oism.org/pproject/Slides/Presentation/Slide3.png
Solar Activity versus CO2 Activity

http://www.oism.org/pproject/Slides/Presentation/Slide5.png
US Surface Temperature Trends versus Solar Activity

http://www.oism.org/pproject/Slides/Presentation/Slide13.png
Bunch of Stuff versus CO2 activity

http://www.oism.org/pproject/Slides/Presentation/Slide14.png
Temperatures versus years
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 06:04 pm
Thanks for the sun-temperature correlation graphs, Ican.

Anyone claiming that his SUV (or mine, or yours) is a more significant factor in the determination of earth temperature than the SUN will please go ahead and prove it Smile
0 Replies
 
ncoons22
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Feb, 2008 09:27 pm
GLOBAL B.S.
woiyo wrote:
Let's see...it is 8 degrees...just had 3 foot snow storm.




First, I have to agree. Its mid February we have 3 feet on the ground and another 1.5 comin this weekend, and its been 3 degrees for two weeks. My brand new truck even has a hard time crankin over. So how the hell can anyone say theres global warming? Secondly, the earth goes through natural climate change, and we're just caught up in a cycle to apparently too big for these dumb ass scientists to understand but yet simple enough for a country boy like me to comprehend. Third, Im not saying that we do not affect our environment. However, this little so called heat wave that we supposedly are having, did it ever occur to anyone that maybe its because of what they did 40 years ago (not that im complaining because i love my 71 nova ss and my 72 chevy pickup) and in now we've alredy cleaned up are act enough so that in forty years it'll we'll be feeling the effects of todays environmental impact which is far less and therefore any 'warming' you feel now will be reduced. Maybe then theyll think were going into a human induced ice age and blame my truck for creating a hole in the atmosphere that let all the heat out. And finally, dont youn realize that this is just more bullshit ramblings from the left (liberals) to make them sound halfway educated and intelligent so they can have half a chance at getting a vote or two and they can have something to argue over with us intelligent conservatives?
0 Replies
 
 

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