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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2007 09:19 am
blatham,
Does that change any of what he wrote in my link?
Does that change any of the facts he presented?

OR is it that since you dont like his politics you must try and discredit the facts he presented?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2007 09:53 am
Just adding to the facts.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2007 09:59 am
to state again what president bush' chief scientific adviser stated just a few days ago :

Quote:
BBC News reported on September 14:

Bush aide says warming man-made
By Roger Harrabin
Environment analyst, BBC News

The US chief scientist has told the BBC that climate change is now a fact. Professor John Marburger, who advises President Bush, said it was more than 90% certain that greenhouse gas emissions from mankind are to blame.

The Earth may become "unliveable" without cuts in CO2 output, he said, but he labelled targets for curbing temperature rise as "arbitrary".

His comments come shortly before major meetings on climate change at the UN and the Washington White House....

In the starkest warning from the White House so far about the dangers ahead, Professor Marburger told the BBC that climate change was unequivocal, with mankind more than 90% likely to blame....

Despite disagreement on the details of climate science, he said: "I think there is widespread agreement on certain basics, and one of the most important is that we are producing far more CO2 from fossil fuels than we ought to be. "And it's going to lead to trouble unless we can begin to reduce the amount of fossil fuels we are burning and using in our economies."…

"The CO2 accumulates in the atmosphere and there's no end point, it just gets hotter and hotter, and so at some point it becomes unliveable," he said.


i would suggest if the president's chief scientific adviser comes out with some rather strong statements about the dangers of global warming , there might be some truth in the matter .
as i also said , one might suggest that a 90 % probability isn't good enough for scientists to to make pronouncements , but at 100 % certainty we'll all be fried - I GO WITH 90 % .
hbg
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2007 02:30 pm
hamburger wrote:

i would suggest if the president's chief scientific adviser comes out with some rather strong statements about the dangers of global warming , there might be some truth in the matter .
as i also said , one might suggest that a 90 % probability isn't good enough for scientists to to make pronouncements , but at 100 % certainty we'll all be fried - I GO WITH 90 % .
hbg


What if it was the head of the CIA, or any one of Bush's other advisors, would that mean they are always correct, hamburger?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2007 02:31 pm
blatham wrote:
Just adding to the facts.

Good. Sounds like this guy, Schmitt, may be fairly smart on scientific issues and some common sense on political issues as well.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2007 04:37 pm
okie wrote :

Quote:
What if it was the head of the CIA, or any one of Bush's other advisors, would that mean they are always correct, hamburger?


ALWAYS CORRECT ?
he said 90 % , didn't he ?
i doubt the U.S. administration had 100 % of the facts before invading iraq , but ... (you can fill in the rest) .

i also doubt that "moving towards green" is going to kill and maim as many people as the iraq war - but perhaps that also is only a 90 % certainty !
scientists will no doubt be able to give us more information as this is being discussed .
it certainly seems to have made at least some policymakers give it some serious thought rather than just brushing it aside as if it were junk science .

personally , i'd rather see the world moving towards reduction of pollution and diseases rather than start a war - only my personal preference , of course .
hbg
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2007 06:03 pm
As libs love to use the term, "strawman," I think you have just used a big one, as where do you assume it is an either / or situation there? And who exactly is advocating more pollution, diseases, and wars? Pollution is inevitable as a byproduct of technological advancement, and the minimizing it is admirable, but must be done prudently as much as is practical or even possible as a tradeoff with economic and other considerations. Diseases have been here since the dawn of man, and I am not aware of anyone advocating more, except inadvertantly sometimes, one example being the non-use of DDT. Wars have also been common to mankind, and have shown to be necessary sometimes to avoid tyrannical and brutal dictators, Hitler being just one example. So if you are against all wars, I don't know what to say?
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2007 06:54 pm
okie wrote :

Quote:
Pollution is inevitable as a byproduct of technological advancement


i'm sure that statement will come as a surprise to many , including scientists .
there are many technological advancements that have REDUCED pollution rather than increased it . it's a matter of choosing what technological advances to pursue and how to implement them - just a layman's point of view , of course .
hbg
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2007 08:40 pm
Pollution is a loaded word, hamburger. Maybe we need to use other words to better describe what goes on with technology, but when energy is produced, materials are transformed and byproducts of the process are given off, either to be captured or to escape into the environment. CO2 did not used to be considered a pollutant because it is a naturally occurring component of the atmosphere.

Just as an observer of science, for every problem that science solves, it produces other problems or consequences.

I would defy you to cite just one example of a technological advancement that is totally benign in terms of having no effect at all upon the natural environment. There may be some that might seem fairly innocuous, but I am going to stick my neck out in figuring that all do have some consequences.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2007 12:15 am
Who says, the choice of energy sources isn't political? :wink:

http://i20.tinypic.com/nvxxdw.jpg

Advert in the New York Sun, 26.09.07, page 4
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2007 01:55 am
Well the Americans could dig coal and use it for their cars and planes, or they could drop a bomb on Ahmadinejad and get more oil.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2007 02:26 am
I think this is good news. Except for birds

At least its a measure of the problem being taken seriously.

http://environment.independent.co.uk/green_living/article2998929.ece
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2007 03:45 am
Surely people are the cause of pollution. Babies. Sex.

American Oil Consumption is 21 million barrels of crude per day.

Assuming a baby born today lives 80 years it will take about 2,200 barrels to service its lifestyle.

There will be significant additional fossil fuel pollution from coal and natural gas use.

Further additions to pollution come from a 3% growth rate which the DOW is dependent on and increasing population size through increased fertility and medical science created longevity. Those factors will at least double the figures.

Any politician offering to do anything serious on any of these factors simply won't get elected.

The pollution from North America in 1700 was probably zero.

And now the US, and the UK, are waging war to ensure the process continues.

As Bob Dylan said-

"We're going all the way till the wheels fall off and burn."

Anyone who thinks that the situation in 50 years is untenable is handing the bundle of joy born today that very situation to be lived with by that baby for the last 30 years of its life. And the ride up to untenable goes through stages of "nearly untenable" and "getting untenable" and "worrying" all the way to where we are now.

Bromide in the water supply is one solution.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2007 03:43 pm
bloody hell spendy!

I had to check to see if that post was from you

you can be serious and make sense at the same time

Is that why you are so pessimistic?
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Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2007 04:09 pm
As China's economy expands, it is turning increasingly to carbon-laden coal for electricity.
And although China's energy intensity (energy consumed per unit of economic output) has decreased by nearly 5 percent per year for the last two decades as a result of greater efficiency, it is still nearly seven times that of the United States, according to the World Bank.
At this rate, China's growth trajectory could add the equivalent pollution of another present-day United States to the climate system in a little more than a decade.

Dollar-for-dollar, the most efficient way to cut global greenhouse gas emissions would be, in theory, to invest hundreds of billions of dollars to improve China's energy efficiency.
But Congress would never support such an approach.
After all, which members of Congress would vote to undercut the competitiveness of U.S. companies, especially in the face of a weak domestic economy, public anger over outsourcing, China's currency value, and the U.S. trade deficit with China?
More broadly, how long will voters in Europe and Japan, which have done the most to limit emissions, be prepared to make sacrifices for the global climate if they believe they are alone in doing so?
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=3980&page=1
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2007 05:43 pm
Ramie wrote-

Quote:
how long will voters in Europe and Japan, which have done the most to limit emissions, be prepared to make sacrifices for the global climate if they believe they are alone in doing so?


Are we making sacrifices? Gee- I hadn't noticed.

Are we in for an award? Will we be on telly? Any medals? Will people say nice things about us?

Are you crackers?

We would pollute at 10 times the rate of Yanks if we could get our paws on it.

Mathos would never be able to sleep.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2007 08:32 pm
Steve 41oo wrote:
I think this is good news. Except for birds

At least its a measure of the problem being taken seriously.

http://environment.independent.co.uk/green_living/article2998929.ece


The three nuclear power plants this project wuold replace would cost about 20% less and ahave a much smaller effect on the ecology of the region. What ever happened to British pragmatism?

BTW I note that the Swedes who so piously swore off nuclear power a few years ago are now planning the construction of a large new muclear power station near Malmo.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2007 10:46 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
BTW I note that the Swedes who so piously swore off nuclear power a few years ago are now planning the construction of a large new muclear power station near Malmo.


You might have missed that, George, but Sweden got a centre-right government now.
So, no more nuclear power plants are to be closed, planning of new units is not on the agenda during the coalition's first term. However, several major reactor upgrades will be undertaken.

This was their first aim. Until ...
... in March 2007 the Christian Democrats changed their policy to explicitly disown the phase-out and allow for new reactors being built after 2010.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2007 02:44 am
georgeob1 wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:
I think this is good news. Except for birds

At least its a measure of the problem being taken seriously.

http://environment.independent.co.uk/green_living/article2998929.ece


The three nuclear power plants this project wuold replace would cost about 20% less ...
where does that figure come from?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2007 03:16 am
Plastic pipes is the answer

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/sep/27/climatechange

Lovelock is an advocate for nuclear power btw
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