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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 01:20 pm
hamburger wrote:
foxfire :
there isn't much hunting of polar bears taking place any more (but there is still some hunting by natives permitted) .
their living grounds are simply shrinking rapidly , that seems to be the same problem .
somewhat similar to some native populations losing their traditonal living space in brazil , the pacific islands , in northern canada ... and other areas .
hbg


From Polar Bears International
Quote:
Are polar bears endangered?
Polar bears are a potentially threatened species rather than an endangered one. A threatened species is one that could easily become endangered. The major threat to the polar bear is climate change. Other threats include pollution, poaching, and industrial disturbances. Hunting could become a threat if populations are not well managed.


So agreed the worse threat is loss of habitat. The same phenomenon for different reasons is a huge part of the problem related to many endangered species. So again it seems to me that relocating stressed bears to more favorable habitat is the most practical solution to help/save the bears.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 01:51 pm
Foxfyre - there's only Antarctica for the polar bears, the Arctic ice won't last beyond this century at current rates. We do know the exact extent of sea ice over the last several decades - remember all those satellites for nuclear early warning systems?!

Here's a link from NASA's MODIS satellite:
http://modis-snow-ice.gsfc.nasa.gov/040301arctic.html

http://modis-snow-ice.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/040301map.jpg

Alternatively, they polar bears may mate with brown bears and learn to hunt / fish elsewhere than on sea ice.
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High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 01:55 pm
Btw, the Russians, Canadians, and Norwegians, are the only other countries with polar bears; they all confirm our data.
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High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 01:58 pm
Here's a BBC report on the bears: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4447790.stm

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41035000/gif/_41035756_polar_bear_range416.gif
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 01:59 pm
High Seas wrote:
Btw, the Russians, Canadians, and Norwegians, are the only other countries with polar bears; they all confirm our data.


Sure? What about those in Greenland?
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High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 02:01 pm
Ohhh! Another diplomatic incident between Canada and Denmark in the making - sorry, I did forget Greenland Smile
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 04:44 pm
Just musing waiting for a conference call to begin, but some days ago I commented on some Russian opportunists who are seeing some positive benefits to global warming; namely, their growing season will increase significantly in northern territories giving them much more opportunity for agricultural industries and exports.

I recall some decades ago a Russian (I think) scientist--Borsinov or something like that--who was exploring a way to melt the arctic ice cap on purpose. He saw this as a way to open up shipping routes, would turn Siberia into the garden spot of the world, would increase rainfall decreasing desert areas of the Sahara, etc. and would raise water levels minimally if at all. In other words it would be a very positive thing.

He didn't mention what would happen to the polar bears though. Could the bears survive in Anarctica?
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 05:37 pm
foxfire :
you are right to wonder about a northern shipping route from canada to russia .
omnitrax corporation, one of the largest u.s. transportation company's is the owner and operator of the 'port of churchill' in manitoba , canada
(their head office is located in cenver , colorado) .
they have already had dicussions with russian grain importers and shipping companies to possibly use the port of churchill for year-round use once the artic passage should become (semi) ice-free .
hbg
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Port of Churchill is strategically located on the west coast of Hudson Bay, the Port of Churchill brings Atlantic Ocean trade to the doorstep of Western Canada.
The Port of Churchill offers four deep-sea berths for the loading and unloading of grain, bulk commodities, general cargo, and tanker vessels. Close coordination with the Hudson Bay Railway, its affiliated company, allows efficient access to all North American points through a connection with the Canadian National railway system.

The 140,000-tonne elevator, with unit train unloading capacity, has the ability to clean, grade, store and transfer bulk grains from covered hopper railcars to ocean-going vessels. The Port of Churchill is closer to 25% of Canada's western grain production than any other port.

Churchill provides unique opportunities for the export of grain, manufactured, mining and forest products, as well as the importation of ores, minerals, steel, building materials, fertilizer, and petroleum products for distribution in Central and Western Canada. The Port is a vital link in the trans-shipment of petroleum products and goods of all kinds to the communities in the Nunavut Territory.

The location of the Port is ideal for shipping products to and from Europe, Russia, Africa, Latin America and the Middle East. Using the Port of churchill eliminates time-consuming navigation, additional handling and high-cost transportation through the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Seaway.

The Port is available for shipping and receiving ocean vessels from July until early November. Earlier or later scheduling is available by using ice-class vessels or icebreakers.


full article :
...PORT OF CHURCHILL...
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 06:06 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
okie wrote:
What does the USGS have to do with polar bears? Just wondering. Maybe they do, but I am not aware that polar bears are their field of responsibility.


Seems, they are spending money for a lot of they aren't responsibil.



Its the "GEOLOGICAL SURVEY," Walter. I'm not sure what bears have to do with geology, but nothing surprises me about how our federal government finds ways to spend money. I would think it would be the U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service that should study this in areas around Alaska.

Note to High Seas, etc. I haven't had much time, but when I do, I will try to read up on this "polar bear crisis."
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 06:28 pm
for anyone who wants to learn about the USGS , i recommend a look at their website .
there is a wealth of information available for anyone interested in the various sciences affecting all of us in our daily lives .
hbg
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Our Mission and Vision

Mission: The USGS serves the Nation by providing reliable scientific information to describe and understand the Earth; minimize loss of life and property from natural disasters; manage water, biological, energy, and mineral resources; and enhance and protect our quality of life.

Vision: USGS has become a world leader in the natural sciences thanks to our scientific excellence and responsiveness to society's needs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who We Are

The USGS employs the best and the brightest experts who bring a range of earth and life science disciplines to bear on problems. By integrating our diverse scientific expertise, the USGS is able to understand complex natural science phenomena and provide scientific products that lead to solutions. Every day the 10,000 scientists, technicians, and support staff of the USGS are working for you in more than 400 locations throughout the United States.


source :
...UNITED STATES GEOLOCICAL SURVEY...
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 11:08 pm
My career was geological in nature, and I spent half my working life studying materials from the USGS, and studying polar bears seems to me to be straying from the original mission of the agency. As I said, nothing surprises me anymore concerning bureaucrats justifying their jobs. Oh well, I give up. Next, maybe they will be trying to solve the homeless problem, who knows?
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Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 11:54 pm
okie wrote:
My career was geological in nature,


You are telling us you grew up under a rock?
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jan, 2007 12:23 am
okie wrote:
My career was geological in nature, and I spent half my working life studying materials from the USGS, and studying polar bears seems to me to be straying from the original mission of the agency.


Quote:
The scientists of the USGS study the landscape of the United States, its natural resources, and the natural hazards that threaten it. The organization has four major science disciplines, concerning biology, geography, geology, and hydrology. The USGS is a fact-finding research organization with no regulatory responsibility.

(from wiki)

I think, they do exactly that, what similar societies do in other countries .... and what they studied at university :wink:
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High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jan, 2007 12:22 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
okie wrote:
My career was geological in nature, and I spent half my working life studying materials from the USGS, and studying polar bears seems to me to be straying from the original mission of the agency.


Quote:
The scientists of the USGS study the landscape of the United States, its natural resources, and the natural hazards that threaten it. The organization has four major science disciplines, concerning biology, geography, geology, and hydrology. The USGS is a fact-finding research organization with no regulatory responsibility.

(from wiki)

I think, they do exactly that, what similar societies do in other countries .... and what they studied at university :wink:


So true! Otherwise we're in danger of sounding like the typical Upper Haight residents pictured here Smile

https://www.americanscientist.org/content/AMSCI/AMSCI/Prod/Image/2064_thumb.gif
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 04:32 am
Upper Haight. I didn't even know that god had decided to cut the place in half. I've visited twice, but neither time involved good drugs so the visits were about as spiritual as any shopping trip or Ralph Reed attestation to faith or the pre-dinner grace scene from Talladega Nights ("You really made that grace your bitch, dad!").

Quote:
Ancient global warming was jarring, not subtle, study finds
By Robert Lee Hotz, Times Staff Writer
January 5, 2007

Foreshadowing potential climate chaos to come, early global warming caused unexpectedly severe and erratic temperature swings as rising levels of greenhouse gases helped transform Earth, a team led by researchers at UC Davis said Thursday.

The global transition from ice age to greenhouse 300 million years ago was marked by repeated dips and rises in the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and wild swings in temperature, with drastic effects on forests and vegetation, the researchers reported in the journal Science.

"It was a real yo-yo," said UC Davis geochemist Isabel Montanez, who led researchers from five universities and the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History in a project funded by the National Science Foundation. "Should we expect similar but faster climate behavior in the future? One has to question whether that is where we are headed."

The provocative insight into planetary climate change counters the traditional view that global warming could be gradual and its regional effects easily anticipated.
http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-climate5jan05,0,1965037.story?coll=la-home-headlines
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High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 11:35 am
Interesting article, tks Blatham. Here's the abstract from "Science" magazine:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/315/5808/87

Quote:

The late Paleozoic deglaciation is the vegetated Earth's only recorded icehouse-to-greenhouse transition, yet the climate dynamics remain enigmatic. By using the stable isotopic compositions of soil-formed minerals, fossil-plant matter, and shallow-water brachiopods, we estimated atmospheric partial pressure of carbon dioxide (pCO2) and tropical marine surface temperatures during this climate transition. Comparison to southern Gondwanan glacial records documents covariance between inferred shifts in pCO2, temperature, and ice volume consistent with greenhouse gas forcing of climate. Major restructuring of paleotropical flora in western Euramerica occurred in step with climate and pCO2 shifts, illustrating the biotic impact associated with past CO2-forced turnover to a permanent ice-free world.
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High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 12:03 pm
There's nothing in the article to show the main variables in climate models have changed since this was written >

Quote:

The Earth's climate is not constant, and has experienced major changes in the past on all timescales. The causes of these changes, although still incompletely understood, vary according to the timescale considered. Some of the most important causal mechanisms include continental drift, changes in the Earth's orbital parameters, volcanic activity and solar variations. Solar variations have been invoked to explain climatic change on almost all timescales from 1 to 109 yr.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/q2p4633u64082323/

> meaning that atmospheric composition and changes therein still don't make it into the top 4 or 5.
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High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 12:06 pm
Sorry link was on proprietary database and doesn't transfer here, so here's the article reference:

Journal Solar Physics
Publisher Springer Netherlands
ISSN 0038-0938 (Print) 1573-093X (Online)
Subject Physics and Astronomy
Issue Volume 74, Number 2 / December, 1981
DOI 10.1007/BF00154529
Pages 435-471
SpringerLink Date Thursday, November 04, 2004

T. M. L. Wigley1
(1) Climatic Research Unit, University of East Anglia, NR4 7TJ Norwich, England

This paper reviews past changes in climate and proposed causal mechanisms on timescales of from 1 to 10^9 yr. The evidence for solar activity-climate links is discussed with special reference to the above points.
Proceedings of the 14th ESLAB Symposium on Physics of Solar Variations, 16-19 September 1980, Scheveningen, The Netherlands.
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High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 02:26 pm
Final from me for a month or so: anyone here with access to serious computing power can download NASA's actual earth climate model >


http://www.esmf.ucar.edu/main_site/images/ESMF_GEOS5WCouplers.jpg
http://www.esmf.ucar.edu/

> enter any parameters he likes and see what happens; have fun!
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 05:15 pm
Here's one of the reasons that the U.S., Australia, and a few other countries see Kyoto as an excercise in futility unless ALL countries are signed on:

Hundreds of cars queue aimlessly for the chance to actually get to their destination in Xiamen, south China.

The country has experienced a massive increase this year in the sale of cars, according to the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers.

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/01/china_468x312.jpg

SOURCE
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