74
   

Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Dec, 2006 08:41 am
miniTAX wrote:
BTW, do you know that Artic temperature is not higher now than in the 30s ?


Yes, and that it is called "SAT anomalies".


http://i11.tinypic.com/2u45yee.jpg
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Dec, 2006 08:47 am
I've just bought myself a Brompton

http://www.bromptonbicycle.co.uk/

When you get to where you're going, in my case usually a pub, you fold it up and take it with you. That way it doesnt get stolen either.

(There is a waiting list for Bromptons. If you want one in a hurry you can buy at a premium price on E Bay)
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Dec, 2006 10:24 am
Steve, if I lived there, I would do as you do as well and give up on cars. You can't drive a private car in London anyway, can you?
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Dec, 2006 01:12 pm
okie wrote:
Steve, if I lived there, I would do as you do as well and give up on cars. You can't drive a private car in London anyway, can you?


No, they only allow government owned cars there.

(Wait. That was a joke, right?)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Dec, 2006 01:35 pm
okie wrote:
You can't drive a private car in London anyway, can you?


How did you get this funny idea?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Dec, 2006 01:42 pm
Or are you referring to the "Congestion Charge"?

(This page contains information about that.)
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Dec, 2006 01:42 pm
There are thousands of cars in London, and probably as many cabs. Laughing
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Dec, 2006 03:46 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
There are thousands of cars in London, and probably as many cabs. Laughing
yeah and I get the impression they are all trying to ******* kill me on my bike

(out of london actually)
0 Replies
 
miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Dec, 2006 04:10 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
miniTAX wrote:
- It sucks up so much money that nothing is left for bus transportation which would have been much more useful to isolated villages and the elderly. So what the governement does it to forbid any private company from setting up transportation services which would kill the nationalized regional railway system ! Yes you heard well: in France, we are regulated by a 1927 law which prevents, with some rare exceptions, private bus companies to establish where they want, even if there is a real need of public service, all to protect the inefficient public sector.


I would really like to see links for that, recent, not some old ones.
(Because in that case, I have to through away my collection of actual French laws Crying or Very sad )

I have no link but a well documented book on the state of public transports written by the father of the Parisian high speed tube (TER): Christian Girondeau.
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/2747570150.08._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

In France, the openning of any private bus line must be authorized by the ministry of transport, which in effect IS the SNCF (french national railways) because of a 1927 law amended by a 1934 decree, never changed ever since in order to protect the SNCF. So the opening of a bus line is not a matter of of public interest but a matter of the railways and its reactionnary unions' interests. Typical of a uncontrolable public sector monster. In most situations, trains would have no chance to exist or compete with others transportation means (roads for short distances and planes for more than 600 km travels) without heavy subsidies. Just see the Eurostar's catastrophic financial situation even if it links two most densely populated capitals of Europe. Roads or private highways on the contrary bring huges sums of money to the gov, be it through gas taxes, road tolls, car VAT and all the automobile industry taxes.

Quote:
miniTAX wrote:
-
So public transportation, yes, but not everywhere and not at all costs.


And you are sure, such changes after privatisation? Ever compared it to the UK (or ever read a comparison pre- and after the privatisation in the UK, to ask differently)?
British Railways was in dire straits well BEFORE its privatization. The infrastructure was crumbling and many accidents occured because of it, for example in Clapham in 1988 which caused 38 deaths and hundred of injuries. Thatcher's decision to privatize British Railways was the right thing to do to inject private money to renovate the infrastructure and reorganise the company. The much publicized Paddington accident in 1999 (37 deaths) was not a consequence of the 1995 privatizations but simply because of the decrepit infrastructure inherited from the public service. Private funds simply didn't have enough time to upgrade a really catastrophic situation.

In fact, the worst European accident record is not in GB but in Germany, for example the Eschede accident in 1998, caused by the ICE (German high speed train) with more than 100 deaths. They are simply much less publicized than the British cases because of the media biais against privatizations. In fact British Rail privatization is a sucessfull operation since it nows costs British taxpayers just 1,5 B$/year (compared to more than 10 B$/year for France) for the infrastructure, trains and stations being operated by the 25 successful private operators which now pay the finance ministry to use the railways.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Dec, 2006 04:34 pm
miniTAX wrote:
I have no link but a well documented book on the state of public transports written by the father of the Parisian high speed tube (TER): Christian Girondeau


Hmm, he's president of the "Fédération Française des Automobile Clubs et des Usagers de la Route".


miniTAX wrote:

In fact, the worst European accident record is not in GB but in Germany, for example the Eschede accident in 1998, caused by the ICE (German high speed train) with more than 100 deaths. They are simply much less publicized than the British cases because of the media biais against privatizations. In fact British Rail privatization is a sucessfull operation since it nows costs British taxpayers just 1,5 B$/year (compared to more than 10 B$/year for France) for the infrastructure, trains and stations being operated by the 25 successful private operators which now pay the finance ministry to use the railways.


I don't know how often you travelled Brotish Rail and now one of the many private companies.

But you are correct, the terrible Eschede accident lifted the German railway system high up re accidents.

But what other things aren't publicised? Or even much less than those in the UK?


Christian Girondeau, président des Automobiles-clubs de France
0 Replies
 
miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Dec, 2006 04:57 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Hmm, he's president of the "Fédération Française des Automobile Clubs et des Usagers de la Route".
Yes he is now. But he was in the 70s in charge of the Parisian public transport, particularly the initiator of the suburb trains and the "metro" interconnexion. After that, he was chief of the Road Security mission (sécurité routière). So he knows both worlds rail and road.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Dec, 2006 09:01 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Or are you referring to the "Congestion Charge"?

(This page contains information about that.)


That is precisely what I was talking about, so it is pretty impractical to drive in the heart of the city. It was no funny idea, Walter. It is costly, plus where do you park once you are there? If you are in the heart of London, you see pretty much only cabs and buses.

old europe wrote:
No, they only allow government owned cars there.

(Wait. That was a joke, right?)

That was not a joke. You are not allowed down there without paying the very significant Congestion Charge. I don't know how much it is, but thats what I was told. Only the insane would try to drive downtown London in their own car anyway, in my opinion.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 01:36 am
okie wrote:
It was no funny idea, Walter. It is costly, plus where do you park once you are there? If you are in the heart of London, you see pretty much only cabs and buses.
...
That was not a joke. You are not allowed down there without paying the very significant Congestion Charge. I don't know how much it is, but thats what I was told. Only the insane would try to drive downtown London in their own car anyway, in my opinion.


The last times I've been to London was exactly one week ago.

Since more than 40 years of visiting London I've always thought, only insane drive into the city .... or those, who don't mind waiting in traffic queues and paying immense sums at car parks.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 02:34 am
okie wrote:
That was not a joke. You are not allowed down there without paying the very significant Congestion Charge. I don't know how much it is, but thats what I was told. Only the insane would try to drive downtown London in their own car anyway, in my opinion.


Right, but you can drive your own car, if you don't mind paying. That's different from what you said, as your statement was that "you can't drive a private car in London anyway".

If you're only complaining that it's expensive to own a car in London, then I don't think the situation is really that different from e.g. New York City.
0 Replies
 
miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 04:15 am
old europe wrote:
Right, but you can drive your own car, if you don't mind paying. That's different from what you said, as your statement was that "you can't drive a private car in London anyway".
Yes but the situation in London is not common thanks to "Red Ken".
Here is how some men WANT to tell other men what is the best way to (not) move. And when they need ammunition for their rhetoric, they invent them, such as peak-oil or GW:

source:
Quote:
Here is the news for the weekend of 2 and 3 December: In London, `Red' Ken Livingstone, the mayor, held his first West End VIP Day - VIP standing for `Very Important Pedestrians'. The mayor banned cars, buses and taxis from Oxford Street and Regent Street between 10.30am and 5pm on Saturday, so that shoppers could shop without having to `dodge vehicles'. A report commissioned by the British government floated various ideas for relieving gridlock and congestion on British roads - no, not by building more roads, but by introducing a national road-pricing scheme where motorists will be charged for driving on motorways and A-roads. And finally, EU bigwigs in Brussels finalised plans to enforce `carbon quotas' on airlines, which could see the price of flights go up by 40 Euros as passengers are charged for the impact their journeys have on the climate.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 08:36 am
It obviously always depends whom you believe.

I personally didn't meet a single out of the some thousands in Oxford Street who complained.

Neither was to be read in the papers.

And even the strongly anti-Livingstone Evening Standard couldn't resist praising the Lord Mayor for this:

http://i11.tinypic.com/4bogcgx.jpg

But since you, miniTAX obviously made different experiences that weekend in London ...
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 08:43 am
I didn't get from Minitax's post that he was complaining about closing Oxford Street to pedestrians, and the post focused on taxing people to drive or fly in airplanes.

But looking at that picture Walter posted, I shuddered to think about trying to shop in the middle of that enormous crowd. Is that appealing to you Europeans? I'm not saying we don't have some of the same situation here at certain events or even on some of our streets in the larger cities, but it sure doesn't look like fun to me.

But then, due to the distance and time involved, I pretty much have to drive my car to shop anywhere so . . .
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 10:02 am
Foxfyre wrote:
But looking at that picture Walter posted, I shuddered to think about trying to shop in the middle of that enormous crowd. Is that appealing to you Europeans? I'm not saying we don't have some of the same situation here at certain events or even on some of our streets in the larger cities, but it sure doesn't look like fun to me.

But then, due to the distance and time involved, I pretty much have to drive my car to shop anywhere so . . .


I don't think that such is THE aim for any shopper here. But such happens at special occasions, e.g. when Oxford Street becomes pedestrian only for the first time since centuries.

And as I get, it's the same in the USA.


Of course, most - including me - would like to drive in front of ashop and then drive to the next one.
But not only to our medieval city centres that's not what is possible: actually, shoppers don't like cars on pavements or when crossing streets very much.
One of the reasons, we got pedestrian-only shopping areas all over Europe.

The park-and-ride system is a great advantage, especially in bigger cities.
0 Replies
 
miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 11:42 am
Foxfyre wrote:
I didn't get from Minitax's post that he was complaining about closing Oxford Street to pedestrians, and the post focused on taxing people to drive or fly in airplanes.
I am complaining that the planners consider individual transportation means others than legs are ennemies. When you close a street, it means even bike are forbidden!
BTW, Walter's photograph is misleading: people walk in the middle of streets simply because there is no car. That there is more of them in town and in shops remain to be seen. Do they shop more or wandering more because of the street closed or because of the Chritsmas season, the lights, the sound, the animations ?
When I visit the Champs Elysées, I like to walk sometimes but I also like to be able to do so by car, especially when it is cold, or rainy or when the kids are tired. Some consider walking and losing time going from point A to point B a social progress. I don't.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 11:48 am
The road was closed from 10:30 am to 5 pm on Saturday... it isn't as if it is permanently closed to cars.

In my old town of Austin Texas, 6th street - where all the bars and clubs are located - is closed off on weekend evenings (though not to bicycles!)

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.1 seconds on 05/21/2025 at 02:18:15