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THE MEANING OF OZ - All you need to know!

 
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Tue 24 Oct, 2023 06:38 pm
Quote:
How's the "uptake" of the C19 boosters going there?

The community clinic here has had steady traffic for c19, flu, and rsv vaccines. When I went there the place was jammed and everyone was upbeat and positive. Vaccines can also be dispensed in licensed pharmacies and physician's offices but I don't know how many people are using those options.
0 Replies
 
cherrie
 
  4  
Reply Tue 24 Oct, 2023 07:21 pm
@hightor,
It was obvious for a long time that this was going to be an overwhelming defeat, I don't think it came as a surprise to too many people.

I think the biggest problem was the complete lack of any clarity on how the Voice would work. The government couldn't/wouldn't give any details on how it would operate, how many people would be involved, how they would be chosen, what it would cost and so on. We were being asked to change our Constitution but not being told what that change would really mean. All these details were going to be decided after the referendum was won.

This is what would have been added to the Constitution and it's the last part that was a problem for a lot of people. We needed to know all this first to be able to make an informed decision.





Chapter IX Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples

129 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice

In recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Peoples of Australia:

there shall be a body, to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice;
the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples;
the Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures.





Also every state government and the Federal government have a Department of Indigenous Affairs and a Minister for Indigenous Affairs (or similar). If all these people were doing their jobs properly and actually working for, and listening to the people they're supposed to be there for, then none of this would be necessary. That's where the change needs to happen.

Builder
 
  0  
Reply Tue 24 Oct, 2023 09:31 pm
@cherrie,
Quote:
If all these people were doing their jobs properly and actually working for, and listening to the people they're supposed to be there for, then none of this would be necessary. That's where the change needs to happen.


Totes agree. I was working remote in the NT as an educator assessor during the bad years of ATSIC, which was the original "voice" for indigenous people, but ended up even more corrupt than the white side of politics. Former leaders of that org are still facing up to a thousand charges of fraud and nepotism today.

Some of my older trainees called ATSIC aborigines talking **** in Canberra.

They had no representation at all, and the only people visibly benefiting, were close relatives of those acting as a go-between from govt handouts to the people.

Nowhere in this new proposal, was it made clear how the "voice" reps were going to be chosen (not elected) or how such a small number of people could be expected to genuinely represent over two hundred individual tribal groups, many of whom hate eachother's guts.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 25 Oct, 2023 01:16 am
This needs to be on the table, and is likely the reason Jacinta Ardern did the runner. https://twitter.com/wolsned/status/1716005456643043355
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Oct, 2023 02:31 am
@cherrie,
Thanks, cherrie.

Quote:
All these details were going to be decided after the referendum was won.

I'm not a big fan of referendums, for reasons like this. ^

Some of them have been decided the way I like but, all in all, we have elections and representative democracy for a reason. Skirting legislation based on the sentiments of the day is a recipe for the worst sorts of populism.
Builder
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 25 Oct, 2023 02:34 am
@hightor,
A referendum is even closer to actual democracy than our usual "two party preferred" crapola. One vote equals one value.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Wed 25 Oct, 2023 05:25 am
Quote:
A referendum is even closer to actual democracy than our usual "two party preferred" crapola. One vote equals one value.
Referenda do look like the essence of majoritarianism. However, they mostly range from the pointless to the dangerous.

The decisions on a referendum are done with relatively little information, forcing voters to rely on political messaging - and that puts power in the hands of political mindsetters rather than those of voters.

Switzerland is de facto (since 1848] governed by referendum (de iure since 1874).
These people's rights are embedded in an orderly political decision-making process in which the democratically elected representative bodies have a significant share in the formation of the state's will.
And referenda for purely political reasons are excluded by the Swiss constitution. (Any amendment to the federal constitution must be approved by the people, and the cantons.

In modern times, the ideas of referenda started with the Montagnard Constitution of 1793 respectively the Directorate Constitution of 1795
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Wed 25 Oct, 2023 06:10 am
Quote:
A referendum is even closer to actual democracy than our usual "two party preferred" crapola.

So what? Responsible governments function through representational democracy. Plebiscites are a hallmark of dictatorships.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  0  
Reply Wed 25 Oct, 2023 06:23 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
The decisions on a referendum are done with relatively little information, forcing voters to rely on political messaging - and that puts power in the hands of political mindsetters rather than those of voters.

Often, in the USA at least, state referenda are given cute and appealing names so that uninformed voters, scanning the ballot for the first time, eagerly vote for measures that sound good without bothering to understand the details. Often bankrolled by wealthy interests groups based in other states, the airwaves are flooded with misleading ads, adding to the confusion.
tsarstepan
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Nov, 2023 01:47 pm
@hightor,
Australian police charge a woman with 3 murders in alleged mushroom poisoning

Quote:
It's the kind of story a mystery novelist might conjure. But for months, a real murder case has been playing out in a small Australian town where three people died after eating a family meal that was suspected to contain poisonous death cap mushrooms.

The prime suspect in Leongatha, a country town some 84 miles southeast of Melbourne in Victoria, has long been seen as Erin Patterson, who hosted the lunch in late July whose four guests quickly fell gravely ill. The menu included a beef Wellington dish that Patterson said included mushrooms.

Police arrested Patterson on Thursday; she is now charged with three counts of murder and five counts of attempted murder. The authorities did not name Patterson directly, but the details and circumstances align closely with her case, and national media quickly reported her arrest.

"I am now devastated to think that these mushrooms may have contributed to the illness suffered by my loved ones," she said in August, in a statement to police obtained by Australian broadcaster ABC. "I really want to repeat that I had absolutely no reason to hurt these people whom I loved."
hingehead
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Nov, 2023 04:59 pm
@tsarstepan,
When I heard she was arrested I immediately imagined a 100 pitches for the mini-series.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Nov, 2023 05:03 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
And referenda for purely political reasons are excluded by the Swiss constitution. (Any amendment to the federal constitution must be approved by the people, and the cantons.


They are in Australia too - referendums are only held for constitutional change - and are legally binding. We have plebiscites too (I can only remember one) that are for non-constitutional issues and are non-binding.
Builder
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 3 Nov, 2023 12:50 am
@hingehead,
Quote:
referendums are only held for constitutional change - and are legally binding.


And apparently (akin to the C19 scammers) it's now down to the states to enact legislation vetoing the results of the referendum.
cherrie
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Nov, 2023 02:09 am
@tsarstepan,
Her husband must have someone watching over him given how many times she tried to kill him. Four of the attempted murder charges are the times she tried to bump him off.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  3  
Reply Fri 3 Nov, 2023 07:09 am
@Builder,
Something tells me you aren't overly familiar with how the constitution works in our federation.
Builder
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 3 Nov, 2023 08:27 pm
@hingehead,
And you appear to be completely oblivious to what's actually happening at the state level.
Quote:

Australian states have vowed to press ahead with their own work to implement the Uluru statement from the heart’s three requests – voice, treaty and truth – despite the results of Saturday’s federal referendum.

Victoria, Queensland and South Australia have already begun implementing different parts of the statement, with the former the most advanced, having actioned all three elements.

The state already has a voice to parliament, via the democratically elected First People’s Assembly, as well as the Yoorrook Justice Commission overseeing the state’s truth-telling process.

Rueben Berg, the co-chair of Victoria’s First Peoples’ Assembly, said the state was on track to begin treaty negotiations at the start of 2024 after years of preparation.

“The Assembly has been around since 2019. We’ve had really significant substantial conversations about formal treaty processes for about seven years,” the Gunditjmara man told Guardian Australia.

“It’s a long journey and absolutely it’s going to take time, but the way we’ve set it up, people won’t have to wait until they’ve got everything organised to get treaty outcomes.”


source
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Nov, 2023 06:06 am
@Builder,
That's how our constitution works. We're a federation of states and the states retain powers (like negotatiating treaties, truth and voice with first nations). Note that is legislational change, not constitutional.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Nov, 2023 04:06 am
It’s that time of the year again
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Nov, 2023 01:06 pm
@Wilso,
Why does she seem laughing at us and not with us???
Builder
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Nov, 2023 03:32 am
@bobsal u1553115,
It's called satire. It's all we really have left to target the corporate takeover of our nation.
 

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