Agnoticism: The truthful standpoint on God

That's your opinion.

True.
Let me restate myself: I don't know whether there is a God or not, and I don't see how anyone can prove that there is or there isn't. Therefore, I don't understand the point in all these atheists vs. theists thread. I think that agnostics are more 'truthful' about God because they assert that they don't know whether or not there is a God, whereas many atheists and theists try to debunk one another on basis of belief and claiming sometimes that they know that God exists or not.

Keep in mind that your own existence isn't even a fact.

It is my opinion that many folks have a different notion of what proof is.

Some of us say "I am as sure that there is not a god as that I have a face". There is a great deal of subjectivity and a big connection with language limitations and so forth related to the statement: "I have a face". But we just deal with it and move on and call it a provable thing. Most of us do. But to say "I am justifiably sure I have a face" and then to turn around and say "you cannot be justifyably sure that there is no god" is inconsistent. Both are guesses that could be mistaken, if you want to be apisian about it. But in this light, to stop there on the god question, but to move forward on the guess, "I have a face", would be inconsistent unless one wants to babble about the quality of the evidence for each. This will lead into a big subjective debate that will be as variant from person to person as fingerprints.

Ahh yes, I was trying to dodge the metaphysics.

I wouldn't say that my existence is not a fact though. My material existence in time and space may not be, but my existence itself is a fact and can not be denied as otherwise.

IMO agnosticism is a cop-out.

There is no, and will be no, evidence one way or the other as to the existence of God.

So pay your money, take your chances, and take your leap of faith. One way or the other.

Ray, not to sound like a little kid, but, prove it.

Each man's "faith" is highly subjective. I've always found it extremely humorous when the apisian world establishes its own criteria by which we should determine the existence/non-existence of God. The arrogance level of this crowd is stratospheric.

Disagree and you are arrogant. Oh, well.
God is a manmade concept just thought of in the dawning of civilization, the final eyeblink of history. This by specks on a planet that in the greater scheme is less than a speck. It requires far more arrogance to accept God/gods than not.

What do you mean? Are you suggesting that the sheer size of the universe makes the existense of a supreme being less likely?

I am saying the musing of a few humans are largely irrelevant and that the concept of a god was only recently added, a product of overactive imaginations.

I really don't care, one way or the other. I just get a bit pissed when people go to war over, "my God is better than your God"!

What is "apisian"?

Snood- An "apisian" world is one as seen through the eyes of our own Father Frank!

excuse me, I'll be back after I barf a couple of quarts...

Edgarblythe: Disagreeing does not make one arrogant. The arrogance comes about when the dissenters pull their hair, stomp their feet, sneer down their noses, and insist on their OWN criteria as the benchmark of proving/disproving God's existence.

Like their minds weren't made up long before the tantrum anyway ...

tantrum? please enlighten me about this "tantrum."

So, you put in two more cents and "Agnosticism" is the one true religion?

Some people think they have been victimized by religion. Some people think religion keeps them on an even keel. Some like it, some don't. For sure, one little group of people won't "get rid" of religion.
Sometimes it's the disagreements that allow us to understand just what is in our own heads.

To each his own, I say. This is supposed to be a forum where one can tune in, listen to the experts. So, religious experts, please step out.

Sure there are tantrums on these religious threads. Hitler used to shake and sweat when someone disagreed with him.

I don't mean it as a religion. I do however, acknowledge that comment that at least most of us do not 'know' whether God exist or not, is true.