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The Last Jedi

 
 
Krumple
 
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 04:56 pm
If you haven't seen it. Stop reading. Click out of this thread.

I enjoyed, and really liked Rogue One. I think if I were to score it out of 10, I would give it a 9. I even really liked The Force Awakens, On the same scoring level, I would give it an 8 out of 10. There were a few things I didn't like but those complaints were so minor I can look past them.

However; Ive seen the Last Jedi twice now. After the first time, I was pretty down. So I decided to see it a second time just to make sure how I felt about it.

On the same rating scale out of 10, I give it a 2. WOW a 2 out of 10? Seriously? That seems pretty bad right? Was it really that bad?

It has few really good moments and a **** ton of terrible moments. Lots of slap stick knee slapping jokes. I don't mind a few of these but they kept repeating them.

There was a bout seven plot dead ends. Points in the story that if you had removed them, would have in no way affected the story or outcome in any way.

The entire casino branch side mission to find the code breaker, could have been removed from the film. They end up where they needed to be anyways. They didn't even need the code breaker at all.

I think the character Rose was shallow and only in the movie as an attempt to fulfill some kind of politically correct request to have more minorities in big films. I didn't care about her character even though I was hoping that she would be something new to experience.

Fin takes a back seat to her when she makes her appearance. That doesn't make any sense. We just watched him kick so much ass in the Force Awakens but now that we meet Rose, Fin becomes helpless and clueless?? Seriously? It seems so convoluted and contrived that it is obvious they needed to roll Fin back so they could establish Rose as some kind of kick ass hero. It was clearly obvious but it fails for me.

Not to mention the constant tear jerker moments. When Leia dies in space? But then doesn't. Or when Fin is about to sacrifice himself to destroy the weapon, but then doesn't die. They do it immediately with this really quick Rose "death" scene right after, but NOPE she's not dead. We see her later just sleeping. Seriously?

That whole confrontation between the trapped Rebels and the incoming Empire seems so convoluted. The Rebels get in rickety ships that take twenty minutes to reach the Empire's weapons? The movie seems to pause like a chess match.

The empire moves their pawn. Then we wait for ten minutes in the movie to see what the Rebels do. They move their pawn while the Empire waits. Then the Empires turn comes. The whole thing seems to pause and start, pause and start.

You almost forget that there is a war going on at moments. Because they have paused the war so they can lead you down a plot dead end that is pointless to the actual story. Just like when Poe decides to mutiny only to be shot by Leia who wakes up from her injuries. That whole series of events didn't even need to take place. They could have cut it from the film and you wouldn't have felt as if something was missing.

Over all I felt like the story seems to have been written by four or five writers all working independently on parts of the story. Then when they all finished their parts they got together to figure out how to tie each of their pieces together. It really feels like 3 or 4 movies in one. Where they are each drastically different. With their own feel. But it doesn't work in a good way.

Here is another aspect to a very cheap and failure of pay off. When Rey is in the cave of fears, there is a massive build up. We are about to learn who her parents are! She's figuring out the cave of fears, how it works. She gets all the way up to the stone of seeing and shes begging to learn the information. But nope, all we get are dark figures and her face. Nothing. Robbed of a scene completely. A huge build up with zero pay out. We learned nothing from it.

Then they build us up again when shes facing off with Kylo. Yay! Now we will get to learn who her parents are. Wait what? Is Kylo ******* with her? Is he lying? Her parents were just nobodies? They sold her off to make money? They were assholes? Rey's parents were shitty parents? That's it?? This huge build up twice to learn that they were just alcoholics looking for a way to get a little more money?

Then Kylo expects by telling Rey that her parents were assholes that she would join him? But she watched Kylo murder his own father in cold blood. Rey was close to Han, she looked at him like a father figure, someone to admire and look up to as a role model. She is tempted by Kylo? That doesn't make any sense. What girl in the entire universe would join a bad guy after he tells her, that her parents were assholes who abandoned her?

This is getting long. Probably no one is going to care to read most of it. If even half. So I might as well stop now before it becomes a novel in of itself. I am trying to justify the 2 out of 10. I can go on and on how it deserves such a low rating.

But like I said, I loved Rogue One and I really enjoyed The Force Awakens. It's just that the Last Jedi was a major disappointment.
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Thomas33
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2017 06:01 pm
I saw The Last Jedi. Possibly the best movie ever made - equal to Nocturnal Animals and Alien Covenant
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2017 06:58 pm
@Thomas33,
I really liked it. Half way in, I was unimpressed, but the last thirty minutes were amazing, both for the action and the cinematography and it wrapped up the messages pretty well.
Quote:
The entire casino branch side mission to find the code breaker, could have been removed from the film. They end up where they needed to be anyways. They didn't even need the code breaker at all.

I think the character Rose was shallow and only in the movie as an attempt to fulfill some kind of politically correct request to have more minorities in big films. I didn't care about her character even though I was hoping that she would be something new to experience.

Yes, the casino scene did seem like a waste of time and was probably the worst part of the movie. That whole part and the inclusion of Rose as a foil for Fin is necessary to drive Fin from essentially a janitor who stepped up once to a "hero of the rebellion". I get it, but it sure was long.
Quote:

The empire moves their pawn. Then we wait for ten minutes in the movie to see what the Rebels do. They move their pawn while the Empire waits. Then the Empires turn comes. The whole thing seems to pause and start, pause and start.

That suspense building worked for me.
Quote:

Just like when Poe decides to mutiny only to be shot by Leia who wakes up from her injuries. That whole series of events didn't even need to take place. They could have cut it from the film and you wouldn't have felt as if something was missing.

No, Poe has to morph his character into someone who can lead. He routinely screws up in this one so he will be positioned to do better in the next one. They really smacked down the lone hero saving the day trope in this one. Even his great victory early in the movie is a huge defeat for the rebellion. Poe needs to learn to "never leave your wingman".

Quote:

Here is another aspect to a very cheap and failure of pay off. When Rey is in the cave of fears, there is a massive build up. We are about to learn who her parents are! She's figuring out the cave of fears, how it works. She gets all the way up to the stone of seeing and shes begging to learn the information. But nope, all we get are dark figures and her face. Nothing. Robbed of a scene completely. A huge build up with zero pay out. We learned nothing from it.

Then they build us up again when shes facing off with Kylo. Yay! Now we will get to learn who her parents are. Wait what? Is Kylo ******* with her? Is he lying? Her parents were just nobodies? They sold her off to make money? They were assholes? Rey's parents were shitty parents? That's it?? This huge build up twice to learn that they were just alcoholics looking for a way to get a little more money?

I thought that was perfect. You don't have to be descended from great Jedi warriors. Everyday people can rise to greatness. Matches the overall theme perfectly.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2017 07:12 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:
If you haven't seen it. Stop reading. Click out of this thread.

Sorry. I like spoilers. I can't stand watching a movie for the first time not knowing what is going to happen.

I like watching a movie the second time when I already know what will happen and can follow along the story and catch things that I missed the first time. I find that if I know enough about what is going to happen in a movie ahead of time, I can feel like I'm watching the second time through even when I'm actually watching a movie for the first time.

So don't worry about it. I've already read the comprehensive description of the movie on Wikipedia, and have read many many online articles describing the controversial moments in great detail. So nothing that I read here is going to change anything for me.

I'm probably going to see it for the first time sometime next week. I'm still going to wait until I see it before I form an opinion on it however.
0 Replies
 
Thomas33
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2017 07:23 pm
@engineer,
I enjoyed the whole movie. The climax was equal to the rest of the movie, although Luke's final outcome was beyond symbolic - the actual metaphor to do with Luke's story is the sort of depth that would never tire any self-awareness

The Last Jedi is a movie that represents the bridge between reality and fiction - even better than Batman Forever
0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Dec, 2017 11:00 am
@Krumple,
I could not agree more.
0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Dec, 2017 11:04 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

They really smacked down the lone hero saving the day trope in this one. Even his great victory early in the movie is a huge defeat for the rebellion.


Yeah, the trope which had been at the center of Star Wars.

This was a movie for people who like bumbling (and opaque!) bureaucracy.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Dec, 2017 07:03 pm

I thoroughly enjoyed this episode of the franchise. Still considered Force Awakens the best of all the films but I really like the direction this one takes.

Really looking forward to JJ Abrams episode 9.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2017 06:16 pm
Early fan reaction to Empire Strikes Back in 1980:
http://io9.gizmodo.com/heres-how-fans-reacted-to-the-empire-strikes-back-in-19-1821551259

Probably going to see the new one in a Premium Large Format theater tomorrow afternoon, weather permitting.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2017 07:43 pm
I was also not a fan of The Last Jedi.

I really like the character of Rey, the actress is great and the character is growing. I also liked the character of Rose. I didn't like her line about "... protecting what we love" (especially when Vice Admiral Holdo went and contradicted the message 5 minutes later). Other than that, I thought Rose was both believable and heroic.

I did not like Vice Admiral Holdo as a character. The idea was to have a strong female character in the lead... but she was a horrible leader. This was meant to be a sermon, that when men don't listen to women, they screw things up. But come on; a real leader takes responsibility for their people. She was more interested in protecting her authority than in protecting the people in her charge. Her inability to communicate effectively, to build morale, to set a mission led to the failure of the mission.

Vice Admiral Holdo ruined the movie for me. At its core, most of this movie was about her colossal failure to protect the rebel cause. At the end of the movie the entire rebel army fits comfortably in the Millennium Falcon. This was not a good end.

Kolyo
 
  2  
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2017 04:56 pm
@maxdancona,
There were a ton of "rebel" (lol) characters like Holdo in Rogue One, both male and female. Fortunately, they did not prevent Jyn Erso and the captain from doing what had to be done. In her defense, Holdo did one cool thing near the end. The jump to lightspeed was badass.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2017 08:17 pm
I liked the movie. No specific reason. Looking forward to seeing the plight of the rebels/resistance (whatever they are calling themselves these days) resolved in Episode 9.

I sort of agree with the people who think they should have rewritten the movie so that Leia makes the suicide jump to lightspeed at the end. But what's done is done. Let's move forward with the plot in the next movie now.

Everyone remember that the Han Solo movie will be released THIS SPRING (2018).
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Dec, 2017 08:50 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

I sort of agree with the people who think they should have rewritten the movie so that Leia makes the suicide jump to lightspeed at the end.

How are they going to address her character death now? Weird to leave her 'alive' at the end of the film.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 27 Dec, 2017 07:45 pm
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan wrote:
How are they going to address her character death now?

That is likely undecided. They could however leave the character alive and just not appearing in the movie.


tsarstepan wrote:
Weird to leave her 'alive' at the end of the film.

What I don't get is, they said they thought it would be a shame to cut her inspirational words at the end of the movie.

I was expecting a rousing speech rivaling the Gettysburg Address. Turned out she only said something like "it'll be enough" referring to the small number of survivors.

If they'd had Leia be the one make the suicide jump to lightspeed, they could have had Vice Admiral Holdo return in the next movie for more tension between her and Poe Dameron.

But there are still plenty of ways that creative writers can make a good Episode 9 without having Leia appear in the movie. So this isn't a disaster or anything.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Dec, 2017 09:41 am
@oralloy,
I love this defense for why Kylo Ren as a great emotionally complex villain.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Dec, 2017 07:22 pm
@tsarstepan,
That is a good video and a very compelling argument. I do like Kylo Ren as a villain.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2018 09:08 am
@maxdancona,
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2018 06:35 pm
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2018 05:15 pm
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Mar, 2018 11:59 am
@tsarstepan,
0 Replies
 
 

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