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The meaning of life <cartoons, etc.> ... an evolving thread

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 09:19 am
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/04/02/0204_leunig_gallery__550x385,0.jpg
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 09:28 am
I'm confused for I thought malnutrition rates were much higher before the war , what with the embargo and everything. Somebody help me here.
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 09:30 am
http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/050330/cagle00.jpg
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 09:40 am
panzade wrote:
I'm confused for I thought malnutrition rates were much higher before the war , what with the embargo and everything. Somebody help me here.


I heard this report on ABC news just a couple of days ago, pan. I was surprised, too.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 09:53 am
Here you are, pan:

Children Pay Cost of Iraq's Chaos

Malnutrition Nearly Double What It Was Before Invasion

By Karl Vick
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, November 21, 2004; Page A01

BAGHDAD -- Acute malnutrition among young children in Iraq has nearly doubled since the United States led an invasion of the country 20 months ago, according to surveys by the United Nations, aid agencies and the interim Iraqi government. .... <cont.>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A809-2004Nov20.html
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panzade
 
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Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 10:10 am
It's understandable considering the circumstances.
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msolga
 
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Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 10:03 pm
Hmmmmmm .... I dunno, panz. Confused
I guess I'm not that understanding, or something .... Sad
All this self congratulatory talk of democracy sweeping Iraq & elsewhere & here we have the innocent victims of the invasion buried in some obscure section of our daily news. A HUGE effort should be made by the invaders (including the government of my own country), post haste, to remedy the suffering of these children. THEN they can rave on the wonders & joys of democracy as much as they like! (Sorry if I sound harsh, but this makes me absolutely furious.)
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2005 09:08 am
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/04/02/cartoon_0304_gallery__550x415.jpg
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2005 09:29 am
That's sweet.
BTW, I'm thinking long and hard about your last post.
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msolga
 
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Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2005 09:32 am
Me, too.
I hope I didn't hurt your feelings, panz.
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2005 09:58 am
No. I can't imagine you've ever hurt anyone's feelings. As you know, I'm slightly different than most Americans having lived in South America and Europe for many years. I feel I have a sense of the whole earth and I'm not as prone to jingoistic postures.
The situation in Iraq from the British mandate til now is a very complex set of way-points. I don't really know where we are now, but in the context of the next twenty years, the last two years might have been a catalyst for a more safe and secure Iraqui population.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2005 10:37 am
I guess my background (refugee/displaced family) has had a huge influence on my reading of events such as the Iraq invasion, too, panz. To me, it is pointless for the US to be congratulating itself on restoring democracy to Iraq if a large proportion of the population's basic needs are not being met. What consolation is having the vote when you have so little control over your own & your loved ones' well being? How confidant can we be about reports of the supposed jubilation of ordinary Iraqis at being able to vote when malnutrition & hardship are so widespread? And this situation doesn't appear to be a major issue of concern to the US & it's allies, to their shame. A small proportion of what was spent on invading Iraq could solve the problem! Why isn't this a priority? Why is it up to the UN to raise this very serious issue & try to do something about it? Surely US advisers in Iraq would be well aware of the circumstances of such a large number of Iraqis. It seems to me that the US government is far more concerned about justifying the invasion of Iraq to the western world than it is with the welfare of so many Iraqis who are still suffering as the result of the invasion. This is certainly not the way to win over Iraqi hearts & minds.
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2005 10:48 am
I would think that coming from a background of refugee/displaced family you'd have a little more patience in our efforts to stop the genocide and displacement of families that has been the status quo in Iraq for 50 years.
What good is well-being when you have so little control over your survival the very next day? I imagine control is paramount and well being is the next step. Historically we have the Berlin Airlift and the Marshall plan to light the way.
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msolga
 
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Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2005 11:35 am
I really have to smile at that, panz. Let me tell you, people who are busily putting all their effort into just survival haven't the luxury of lofty ideals. As my father put it, whichever country was currently occupying or invading your bit of Europe, well you had to go along with them. You had no power. When he & his family were carted off to an enforced labour situation in Germany you just had to accept that. When it was impossible to return to your own country & you became part of the flotsam & jetsom of Europe, you had to wear that, too. My point is that people in these circumstances just have to accept what happens to them. Including invasion & malnutrition & hardship in the case of Iraq. Who knows what the ordinary people actually want? I suspect that for most of those suffering from the hardships mentioned earlier that it's the same survival things that motivated my father & mother. I certainly wouldn't presume to say that all this suffering will be worth it in the long run. I just wouldn't necessarily assume that we know what's best for ordinary Iraqi people at all. We just can't know that.
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2005 12:09 pm
I'm relieved that your post didn't invalidate my feelings and if I sounded arrogant and unfeeling you know I'm not.
Our fathers lived very similar lives and it is no accident that their wanderings ended in Australia; a remarkably stable and progressive country. Isn't this what we wish for the poor souls of Rwanda, Cambodia and Serbia?
To be left alone and in peace without the nightly rapes and asassinations that marked these regimes.
I wouldn't presume to know what's good for the Iraquis either but surely the agony of the last two years pales in comparison to the suffering of the last 10. The effort the Iraquis are making on their own behalf is a testament to their desire for peace and security
Our fathers found this peace and security and thus we correspond to each other and examine their lives. Perhaps one day the Iraquis will be able to do the same.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2005 02:55 pm
panzade wrote:
but surely the agony of the last two years pales in comparison to the suffering of the last 10.

That remains very much the question. Perhaps a future stabilisation of democracy and/or prosperity will still make the agony of the last two year pale, but that's something else. Yes, they no longer suffer under a dictatorship. But in return they've so far gotten degrees of anarchy. Conceptually, I prefer anarchy over dictatorship. But in terms of daily life its none the easier.

At the Rotterdam film festival two months ago, I saw the first Iraqi movie that was made after the fall of Saddam: Underexposure. Interesting story behind it: during the looting, boxes of film material had turned up - but they were ten or twenty years old, nobody even knew whether they'd still even work. But this guy and his friends started filming anyway. Why? To catch what's happening.

It was a quirky, kinda meandering film, in which a rudimentary storyline is acted out but mixed up with a film about the film, in which the director keeps wondering out loud about things. He says: "We don't need a story ... it is the city, the city that calls me to film, film what's outside, her pain ... I have characters in my head, they haunt me". So, on the one hand we see a story. The wounded soldier who falls in the family's alleyway, whom they carry inside and hide, and try to nurse over - but he's too heavily injured, dies. The slightly retarded son, obsessed about the soldier, floats him off into the river when he dies - and then himself follows him, to drown himself. The dirt and fear. The older father of the house, who in desperation sighs "All we want is peace, bring us peace". And then on the other hand there's the director himself, arguing with his real-life girlfriend (wife?) who pleads for him to stay inside, telling her "The suffering outside is demanding me to film." The girlfriend/wife, a teacher by profession, who slowly is driven crazy by having to stay inside herself at all times - because it's no longer safe for a woman to go outside. One time, she near-hysterically demands to go out, to go to her school, to teach her children - but they cant let her.

You know what they always said about Mussolini? Oh yes, he murdered all those people, but the trains rode on time. And Hitler built good roads. I was always nonplussed by the continuing opinion polls from postcommunist Eastern Europe that kept showing a sizable minority saying that "things used to be better" before, anything from 20% to 50%, until one day I came across an opinion poll from postwar Germany, where a similar percentage of West-Germans in 1946 or so said the same. Incredible but true. Similarly, democracy is nice, but under Saddam the woman could go out and teach - without headscarf or anything, too. There was no crime, no random bomb explosions on the street corner, no war. Now none of that proves that the whole Saddam dictatorship would have been better left alone, cause there were also the torture cellars. But you know how it is: dictatorships take out slice after slice of human victims, torturing and executing. But if you keep your head down and obey at all times and you're lucky, you can still have a stable enough daily life. Compare anarchy, in which noone is powerful enough to impose and eliminate over all - but random violence can strike anyone, at any time. For now, in terms of daily life, the Iraqis have gone from the frying pan into the fire, or vice versa. In Baghdad violence is rampant - except for in Sadr City, where the Islamists rule and keep order, but brutally apply Islamic law in return.

Perhaps it will all be all-right in the end, or at least better. That prospect of a better future is something that wasn't there under Saddam. And if things do indeed get better, it will all have been worth it. But to say that the last two years themselves have already just been a pale shadow of the years before sounds all wrong.
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Mathos
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2005 03:52 pm
Some outstanding views on this thread, nimh, panzade, (you wry old rascal) msolga especially. My views:- The invasion was an illegal act of war. Saddam could well express the defence that his country suffered not from the barbarism we have witnessed since the invasion, crime was negligible in general terms. Yes he ruled with a fist of iron, he had to, in his book there was no other route in keeping peace. He may well add that he was trained in the use of weapons of mass destruction by those from The West ! After all up to the invasion of Kuwait, he was a good friend of America especially. The death toll gets higher ! Innocent men, women and children have been blasted to smithereens throughout the land, mainly by American and British forces. Fabrications were made by men who should know better, the experts told those who mattered, 'There are no weapons'
The loss in lives of servicemen taking part in this fracas, especially American boys is ludicrous. Their relations would put it far stronger. The poor and the brainwashed of the Islam fraternity are flocking to martyr themselves against the infidel, (how the hell do you stop that?) 9/11 horrendous, terrorism at its worst! There was no connection, not the remotest link between the murderous body of zealots and Iraq ! Bin Laden and his real senior henchmen are still un-accounted for. Why? It isn't that long since we were hanging people with the blessing of The Crown in Britain. America is still doing it ! We had better not mention torture ! Had we ? We have no true inclination as to how all of this could work out in real terms, we shall have to wait and see. Ten years down the line and Baghdad could be the Vegas of The Middle East, with burger and pizza outlets on every corner. Will we be happy with that ? It may well turn out to be the heart of Dante's inferno, with the sole purpose of destroying our way of life and everything we hold dear. I feel deep concern at the bellicose actions taken by Messrs Bush and Blair especially. Point of fact at present is that Iran and North korea sit snugly in the warmth of knowing how ridiculous it would be for the West to open a further battle front. We could really end up with some big bangs before this little lot is sorted out.
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2005 06:56 pm
You all are so right. I venture opinions and hopes...but that's all they are.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 06:41 am
That was a very interesting change from our usual political cartoon exchanges! It should happen more often! Very Happy

I hestitated a couple of times before posting this one. One thing I've noticed is that Oz cartoonists tend to be quite biting or abrasive when commenting on controversial political issues. I think politically inclined folk in Oz are used it it & value them for it. But I do wonder sometimes how some of their offerings are received in other places. Anyway, here's Bruce Petty's latest:

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/04/01/0204_cartoon_gallery__550x358,0.jpg
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 07:39 am
Heh.

A quick Google search on that movie, Underexposure, brings home some of the contradictions.

First, the Singapore International Film Festival website has the brief introductory run-down on the film.

Then, on the website FilmIraq (of the Foundation for Iraqi Film Development), director Rasheed eloquently testifies to how even his film, though it shows the anguish and suffering of post-invasion Iraq, itself is a symbol of new hope in this post-Saddam era:

Quote:
Sanctions, the immigration [sic] of good professors, and the absence of raw materials and equipment has played the largest role in the deterioration of cinematic education in Iraq. The crew and myself have taught ourselves by ourselves, depending on free education, non stop observation, and continuous work. We are waiting for the day that we can see real teachers and professors, and real methods taught."

"After nearly three decades of suffering under Saddam's rule, the pool of writers, cinematographers and other artists in the country has dwindled to a mere puddle. [N]o one realizes how desperate the situation is. As we try to rebuild the country physically, we also need to rebuild Iraq's artistic heritage."

"I'm an Arab, and a Muslim, an Iraqi, and I lived under Saddam. These reasons are enough to build a strong prison around your mind. So we try to break through these doors without shame, without fear, without any kind of mental prison."

"It's like the country has been in a locked jail cell for 30 years. We're still blinking from the light of the sun."


In the one funny paragraph, an OC Weekly review also underlines the artistic bleakness of the Saddam era the Iraqis have escaped from, even as it also hints at the "frying pan" character of current times, when it it expresses the hope that films like these will:

Quote:
stand a good chance of competing with the faded porn films that took over Baghdad's cinemas after the invasion, when the security situation meant only men, rather than families or couples on dates, could go to the movies. Certainly they should attract more audiences than such late Saddam-era masterpieces as Saddam: Savior of the Iraqi People and America: Evil Nation Aligned with Israel and Bent on Destroying the Honorable Nation of Iraq, the latter no doubt posing a challenge to Iraqi movie-marquee changers.


More seriously, it also recounts how

Quote:
For Rasheed, a "dwindled pool of artists weighed down by old-fashioned aesthetic sensibilities" left his generation with very little to build on besides their sheer talent and determination to break out of the mental prison of dictatorship, war and occupation. But artistic innovation is not so easy in a country where barbers are now assassinated by religious extremists for being too creative in their coiffures.

Indeed, Rasheed has been targeted for being an artist and for spending time in Europe. The assassination of his best friend, a TV announcer, prompted him to quietly return to Baghdad in recent weeks. While some Iraqis are celebrating the recent elections and increasing official trappings of sovereignty, Rasheed can't stay at his own house and will soon join his family in Syria. Such is the surreal confusion that characterizes life in post-Hussein Iraq, where, he laments, artists must choose between "personal safety and artistic freedom and honesty."

But the resulting double vision, one simultaneously "within and above reality," is for Rasheed a necessary ailment for Iraqi artists today. It's the "only way to understand the reality of Iraq. How else can I write about streets where death comes in the dozens and without a reason and everyone kills for entertainment? Baghdad is like Oliver Stone's Natural Born Killers, but in vivid reality."


(As a PS I gotta add that the film itself wasnt actually all that good - but that can be excused considering the circumstances. It was interesting, in any case).
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