3
   

Is France "stingy"?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2004 08:55 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Thousands of Americans are missing,


I do sincerely hope that - althought I didn't know that the Americans outnumber the Europeans - all missed from all nations will finally be found, more or less unwounded.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2004 08:58 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Thanks for your free psycho-socio screening of my behaviour, Bill.

I appreciate it very much.
No sweat Walter, but who said it was free? Grab any major credit card and click here. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2004 09:03 am
<Glad, he didn't ask for the last four digits of my Visa card and mother's maiden name>
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2004 09:04 am
Laughing A million more since I checked last night Laughing

This is happening everywhere Smile

I read a story about a tourist in NYC who walked into the local Red Cross there and wrote a check for $10,000. Many, many more similar stories going on around the world Laughing
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2004 09:04 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Thousands of Americans are missing,


I do sincerely hope that - althought I didn't know that the Americans outnumber the Europeans - all missed from all nations will finally be found, more or less unwounded.

Source
I have no idea who outnumbers who Walter, and couldn't care less. I too hope that all missed from all nations will finally be found, more or less unwounded... but that's sadly not likely. Sad
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2004 10:46 am
JustWonders wrote:
Plenty of national and local news services aired the initial "list" of country donations (ending with France's $135,000). Why? Because it was FUNNY! Pure and simple.


It was also incorrect and misleading.

Quote:

When that Egelund creep made his "stingy" comments (which he later tried to soften), he didn't use the words "stingy" and "Australia" in the same sentence. No, he singled out the U.S. and THAT is what some of us are reacting to on THIS thread.


No, he did not single out the US. I don't know how many times this has to be pointed out. He was talking about all western nations (and the US is not the only western nation) and he was NOT talking about tsunami relief. Some folks have gotten their backs up because they were willing to believe misinformation.

Quote:

The U.S. bashing on this website is so rampant, I've become almost desensitized to it.


Same goes for propaganda regurgitation and willful misinterpretation of the news.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2004 11:13 am
Quote:
It was also incorrect and misleading.


I don't report the news....I just laugh at it Smile

Quote:
No, he did not single out the US. I don't know how many times this has to be pointed out. He was talking about all western nations (and the US is not the only western nation) and he was NOT talking about tsunami relief. Some folks have gotten their backs up because they were willing to believe misinformation


I said he "later" softened it. But, just so you know, I didn't initially believe that report as it was stated to me. No one could, with a straight face, report that the U.S. is stingy and be believed.

Quote:
Same goes for propaganda regurgitation and willful misinterpretation of the news.


Who wilfully misinterpreted the news?
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2004 11:20 am
Who bashed the US?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2004 11:21 am
Craven:

Thank you for your "apology," however you are still incorrect when you claim I misread what I posted. But I suspect you are correct that I bristle when people incorrectly accuse me of making errors I did not make.

I asked you whether only the French directly contributed logistics, supplies and trained rescue teams to the rescue effort because you seemed to be indicating it was these contributions that were not included in the figure I quoted -- yet I was citing to the initial pledges of the other rich countries. So unless those other countries were NOT contributing logistics, supplies, and trained rescue teams, then it was an accurate comparison.

Your attempts to help my reading comprehension by bolding the words in the following sentence I posted, "It planned to send 16 rescue workers to Thailand on Tuesday and 10 tonnes of humanitarian aid to Sri Lanka in the next few days, the ministry said," did not work. I do not understand how you are able to conclude from those words alone that France had sent additional rescue workers to other countries in addition to those 16 they sent to Thailand. I submit this is not an example of "factual inaccuracy" nor a "lapse in reading comprehension" on my part.

Craven wrote:
I respectfully submit this as yet another example of the factual inaccuracy and lapses in reading that I reference.


So much for the apology! Very Happy

Craven wrote:
You misread the article that refers to a single contribution for rescue efforts to one country.


Again ... HOW did I misread the article I posted?

Craven wrote:
... France had already contributed many times that amount at the time of that pledge.

* On December 26th the EU earmarked 4 million dollars through ECHO, the European Commission's Humanitarian Aid Department, for "initial vital needs" saying that subtantial future aid was forthcoming.
* On December 26th France put together a team of "about 100 doctors, rescue specialists and communications experts" (if you want exact numbers I believe it ended up being a 95-man team and 17 tons of cargo) to be sent to Sri Lanka in a Airbus A310 on the 27th.
* On December 28th EU aid commissioner Louis Michel announced 27 million more in contributions and made a suggestion for a donor's conference.
* On December 28th the figure you cited (only a fration of France's contributions) is allocated to a single rescue effort in one of the affected countries.
* On December 29th France pledged 15 million Euros.
* By December 30th France's had added more to total 41.3 million euros (56.17 million dollars).



According to what you posted there, the only thing "France" had contributed in addition to the $135K prior to that pledge, was a team of "'about 100 doctors, rescue specialists and communications experts' to be sent to Sri Lanka ... ". While that may be true, I did not know about it, nor was that fact reported on any news stories I had perused at the time of my post. You did not post a link to where you got that information, but since the fact of the $15 million Euro pledge on the 29th had to initially be gleaned from French publications, you cannot honestly be accusing me of having "reading comprehension" problems? And I do not see that you have shown that France had pledged "many times that amount" at the time of the $135K pledge, unless you attribute the EU contributions to France. As I stated in my last post to you, I included in my initial post the figures from other EU countries, and those did not apparently take into consideration their EU contributions. Regardless, this is not a "reading comprehension" problem as you claim.

You seem to think it is important to distinguish between Search & Rescue money, and Relief and Rebuilding money. I asked you whether the US separated the money it donated to this cause into S&R money, and relief or restoration money. You pointed out that the US contribution had been separated to the different countries the money was going to go to ... but that wasn't the question I asked. I then asked you whether any known news organizations had reported the "separate" amounts of these contributions. Again, I was asking whether the separation had been made on the basis of money going to rescue operations, and money going to relief/rebuilding/restoration. Your response was to point out that usaid.gov broke down the US aid to six specific countries. The amounts provided to each of those 6 countries was also further itemized to the "implementing agencies," but they all appear to be earmarked for "relief" activities, be they "relief activities," "relief supplies," or "relief items." I did not see any diferentiation between "relief," "rebuilding," "restoration," and/or "rescue" operations.

Where are you getting this distinction between "relief" and "rescue"? And why do you think it an important distinction?

You then state that "France wasn't missing a couple of zeroes, you were. And as I suggested earlier it is due to your misreading of what that sum represented." You do understand that the article I posted wasn't the only one reporting France's monetary contribution as being limited to $135K. For example, this article that FreeDuck quoted also reported $100K Euros from France, as did many others. Are you sure that it was I that was missing the zeros, or every news organization that indicated the French contribution was $135,000? But you don't say it was the news organizations that were erroneous, you say it was I that was erroneous when I interpreted what that sum represented. I say again, that sum represented what it was: the reported amount of the initial French contribution to the rescue effort in asia. You have gone through a lot of maneuvers to imply that amount was apparently dwarfed by some earlier contribution by the French, but you have not provided any evidence of this. And you have most certainly not "clearly illustrated" this point. My posting is not "demonstrably wrong," or at least it has certainly not been shown to be by your postings.

Just as you stand by yours, I stand by my remarks.
0 Replies
 
Magus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2004 12:12 pm
Parsing wordage and citing trivia does not obscure the mean-spirited and self-serving tone that permeates the thread... the tone that was established in the Topic/header.
Fact is, SOME people leap at any opportunity to denigrate those whom they have fixated upon as "Them"... because the conflict between "Us" and "Them" is the be-all and end-all of their life experience.
Instigating, provoking and goading are entertainment for SOME...
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2004 12:25 pm
Magus wrote:
...
Instigating, provoking and goading are entertainment for SOME...


I've noticed this ...
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2004 12:26 pm
Magus wrote:
Parsing wordage and citing trivia does not obscure the mean-spirited and self-serving tone that permeates the thread... the tone that was established in the Topic/header.
Fact is, SOME people leap at any opportunity to denigrate those whom they have fixated upon as "Them"... because the conflict between "Us" and "Them" is the be-all and end-all of their life experience.
Instigating, provoking and goading are entertainment for SOME...


You really shouldn't be so hard on your self. It's just the internet.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2004 12:43 pm
U.S. ups tsunami aid from $35 million to $350 million
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2004 12:45 pm
Magus wrote:
Parsing wordage and citing trivia does not obscure the mean-spirited and self-serving tone that permeates the thread... the tone that was established in the Topic/header.
Fact is, SOME people leap at any opportunity to denigrate those whom they have fixated upon as "Them"... because the conflict between "Us" and "Them" is the be-all and end-all of their life experience.
Instigating, provoking and goading are entertainment for SOME...
... which is evidenced by this ridiculously self-serving, partisan post.

GustavRatzenhoffer, who I think most everyone would agree is probably the most beloved A2Ker there is (sorry Craven), started this thread the day before.

This is the title:
On a serious note, regarding the Indonesian disaster.
Barely into the second paragraph, the opening post becomes a naked slam on U.S. policy in Iraq. Shocked By the time we get to the 8th response, which begins: "To bush and his supporters and partners...these children aren't really human beings", it's a full out U.S. policy bashing free-for-all.

Now, was this met with shock and indignation like supposedly unsympathetic conservative postings? Not at all. Some of A2K's most respected posters can be seen openly agreeing with the direction of the thread without even a hint of indignation that perhaps the title didn't fit the thread... or the behavior on it wasn't respectful enough or any other one-sided, hypocritical demonstration of the leftwing majority's unwritten double-standard for judging poster's behavior here. Take notice that not one moderator chimed in to steer either thread, probably because there was nothing wrong with either thread. Wake up and smell the hypocrisy folks. Idea
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2004 01:06 pm
That's a little more like it... though personally I'd like to see another Zero added.

Oh, and just so I don't disappoint those who wish to view me as shallow;

In your face, France! Razz
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2004 01:28 pm
Our foreign aid dick is bigger than your foreign aid dick.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2004 01:32 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
That's a little more like it... though personally I'd like to see another Zero added.

Oh, and just so I don't disappoint those who wish to view me as shallow;

In your face, France! Razz


Err, has somebody checked the French newspapers to see if they've added a zero to their rescue/relief/rebuilding/restoration aid package in the 24 hours?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2004 01:34 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:

In your face, France! Razz


You are so right, Bill, certainly much more than there $57 million.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2004 01:43 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
Our foreign aid dick is bigger than your foreign aid dick.
My comment was a tongue-in-cheek Homer Simpson impression... but: Can you think of a better contest at a time like this? The result seems to be countries digging deeper and deeper to provide aide for the people who need it. That guy who cocked off at the UN is a frigging genius. Obviously, contributions were going to grow anyway but who knows how many extra millions his comments raised? He should do it again. Idea
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Dec, 2004 01:46 pm
I thought I saw $90 Million from France, Walter.
0 Replies
 
 

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