On a serious note, regarding the Indonesian disaster.

Economic development in this country should cease because of this disaster? What am I missing? What is depressing?

I've got a lot of work on my desk that I try get to when I'm not posting on A2K. There are several projects which involve millions of dollars. Should these projects be pushed aside until this disaster is over?

Life, including any productive pursuits which drive our economy (which by the way is the largest GNP in the world, which allows the US government to give more foreign aid than any other country, and to fund disaster relief projects worldwide) should go on.

The disaster is depressing ... not the fact that DC is going to get a new ballpark.

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I think she meant that the choice of what to put on the front page of Reuters was depressing.

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farmerman wrote:

This was a small event also. The historic high tsunamis in a fjord off Norway and along prince William Sound in ALaska reached as high as 450 ft and actually tore entire mountainside forests out by the roots.

Holy crap! Is that true?

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FreeDuck wrote:

I think she meant that the choice of what to put on the front page of Reuters was depressing.

I just checked, and the top story on Reuters web site is the asian tsunami disaster.

http://www.reuters.com/home.jhtml

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That's not true... this is:

Quote:

Location: Lituya Bay, on the southern coast of Alaska, just north of Glacier Bay.
Stats: On July 9, 1958 a HUGE earthquake triggered a HUGE landslide at the head of Lituya Bay. The first (and biggest) wave was an incredible 1,720ft/524 m high!

Source

I had no idea they got anywhere near that big.

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They're on the front page together, or were when I was looking at it earlier today.

Different things bother different people <shrug>.

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ehBeth wrote:

They're on the front page together, or were when I was looking at it earlier today.

Different things bother different people <shrug>.

Ain't that the truth.

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Ticomaya wrote:

Economic development in this country should cease because of this disaster? What am I missing? What is depressing?

No one questioned the economic development in this country, and
there is no reason to cease production because of a disaster in another
part of the world.

I believe the question per se was, that the media is very selective
in what the american people should see and actually get to see as opposed what's really happening outside of the USA.

Headlines like "new ballpark" and other "pressing" news are far more
important, than to count the actual death toll of american soldiers
who have died so senseless in this war (Iraq). No reports of despair,
no pictures of the atrocities - no no, in the land of Superbowl, we
don't get to see such things. It could utterly depress us, you know.

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Merry Andrew wrote:

As Farmerman has said, the real tragedy is that a relatively inexpensive warning system, already in place in both the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans, could have saved untold thousands of lives. For some reason, it has never been utilized in the Indian Ocean. I do fervently hope that this will be an eye-opener to the need for such a system.

Any warning system would be better than none, but conditions are so different there, compared with Florida, say, or Norway, cited above.

In Sri Lanka and indonesia there were countless thousande in illegal settlements living a subsistence existence by the sea- in other words, difficult to alert and impossible to evacuate.

Saw a picture yesterday of a large (50 ft) fishing boat 4km inland. In some places, not enough living remain to bury the dead. Thousands of bodies being washed in on the tide. News request to Europeans this morning, do not travel to the region to search for/ identify bodies of relatives, because corpses are now unrecognisable. Unimaginable.

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Ticomaya wrote:

Life, including any productive pursuits which drive our economy (which by the way is the largest GNP in the world, which allows the US government to give more foreign aid than any other country, and to fund disaster relief projects worldwide) should go on.

This is true, but in perspective, I read yesterday that the US gives less of its GNP in aid and disaster relief, expressed as a proportion, than any other develpoed country, some 1.14% if I remember correctly.

Anyway- who's complaining, I think there is a tremendous effort in fundraising going on now- the British public have given £25 million and counting, and our government have pledged £50 million.
The developed world is digging deep.
The US is cooperating with the UN! Good
Secretary Powell has gone to the region with Jeb Bush! Good.

Sometimes disasters bring out the best in people.

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McTag wrote:

This is true, but in perspective, I read yesterday that the US gives less of its GNP in aid and disaster relief, expressed as a proportion, than any other develpoed country, some 1.14% if I remember correctly.

The GNP comparison is a bit misleading. The US has a huge GNP so a 1.14% is actually a very large number. More to the point just dumping money on this disaster is not a solution. How the money is targeted and spent in more to the point. For example, the US Navy has ordered a battle group with the carrier Abraham Lincoln to the Sumatra coast. Each of the ships has the capability for distilling tens of thousands of gallons of water a day and they have helicopter capabilities and medical facilities. These do not show up in the published donation totals. But they can be immediately put into action. A carrier for example can be brought directly into a port, if it has the facilities and be connected directly to the ports electrical grid. This was done in Seattle Washington some years ago and the carrier literally powered the citie's grid for a while.

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The Abraham Lincoln can distill 400,000 gallons of seawater daily all by itself... and costs $20,000,000 per month by itself. 1.14% is an America Bashing instrument. Europeans typically do the majority of their donating through their respective governments. Conversely, American do more by way of private charities... which aren't included in the typical America-Bashing comparisons.

Let's hope George listens to Jeb when he returns on Monday. Disaster relief here in Florida was measured in billions and went well beyond the basic needs. The damage done in these countries will be measured in the tens of billions, not millions... and we should contribute accordingly. Amazon.com is working with the Red Cross and taking credit card donations as small as $5 if anyone wants to help. The "every little bit helps philosophy" raised several million dollars on that website alone yesterday. Idea

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Well I didn't intend any bashing, I was quoting a figure which was supposed to put other claims into perspective. I accept what you say about charitable gifts being measured differently, and I am a bit uneasy about these comparisons anyway. We seem all to be pulling together, which is the main thing.

The British Navy has launched HMS Victory, which with a fair wind should be off the Cape of Good Hope by Easter. With a cargo of apes and peacocks, and cheap tin trays.

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

Europeans typically do the majority of their donating through their respective governments. Conversely, American do more by way of private charities... which aren't included in the typical America-Bashing comparisons.

:

I don't think this is accurate at all - the British public have now raised £45million - that's a lot of dollars That isn't counting private charities

no bashing intended but this is a huge amount for a small country

... but a LOT more than this is going to be needed.

The water purifying potential sounds brilliant

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Vivien wrote:

OCCOM BILL wrote:
Europeans typically do the majority of their donating through their respective governments. Conversely, American do more by way of private charities... which aren't included in the typical America-Bashing comparisons.

I don't think this is accurate at all - the British public have now raised £45million - that's a lot of dollars That isn't counting private charities

no bashing intended but this is a huge amount for a small country

... but a LOT more than this is going to be needed.

The water purifying potential sounds brilliant

I agree completely. I meant no slight at all by that defensive parroting of historical trends. It only makes sense that countries who rely more on government to take care of things internally would do so externally as well. My only purpose in the comment was to point out that it creates an unrealistic picture for comparison's sake when comparing government spending without considering individual spending as well. I wasn't saying "we're better"... I was saying we're not "worse".

As for water purifying potential, that's the tip of the iceberg on a ship like the USS Abraham Lincoln. That is basically a floating city of 6,000 highly trained residents complete with nuclear reactors for an almost unlimited supply of energy. Obviously, it's an airport too, and carries an extraordinary quantity of fuel as well. And that's just one ship in one of the two battle groups we're sending over. Seeing as our Navy has no real competition, I think this relief effort could prove their finest hour. I'm hoping beyond hope that such awesome destructive power being used for such a benevolent purpose sends a slightly different message to the world about the US than what they've been getting lately.

Here is the ship.

http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/images/usa/cvn72.jpg

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went aboard one of these many years ago in Malta - the sailor showing us around talked about having 'dove' off the side of a previous ship and wondered why we were in hysterics - NOT the past tense in England Very Happy

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Well, first of all, you also rarely see the faces of grateful and happy Iraqis working side by side with Americans and succeeding.

But the reason why you don't see Iraqi relatives grieving over their dead on American TV very often is probably the same as the reason why you didn't see Japanese, Italian, and German families grieving over their dead much in WW2 newsreels. It is known by one and all that war causes death, and that any death is a huge tragedy for those close to the person who died. However, people who believe a war effort is necessary usually choose not to present materials much that hurt that war effort. Regardless whether a war is justified or not, there will always be grieving relatives to photograph, and such photographs will hurt the war effort in both cases.

Certainly the insurgents tend to have not the tiniest respect for innocent life, since they frequently plant their bombs in public places.

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Brandon9000 wrote:

Certainly the insurgents tend to have not the tiniest respect for innocent life, since they frequently plant their bombs in public places.

Certainly also the invaders seem not to have the slightest respect for innocent life, since they frequently aim their bombs and artillery and call in air strikes at public places, and then manage the news afterwards.

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On a serious note, regarding the Indonesian disaster.

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