Catholics vs Protestants

Very nice work, G.

Joe (God knew I was going to say that, but didn't make me do it) Nation

When you wrote, "Very nice work, G.", were you referring to me or to God?

It's just so darn confusing. I mean, I'd hate for you to find out my name and address (Goddess, Heaven) just because I join a Forum!

WOOT! I just gave myself away. Darn it to .... hahaha, nope, I'm definitely not going there!

:wink:

Sorry to do this, and I know that what I am about to say is in part due to my own weird neuroses, but as an Orthodox Christian, I often feel slighted in discussions of Christianity in the West, and this poll is a good example. Depending on whose opinion you get, Orthodoxy is actually the oldest and most traditional branch of Christianity, and we should be given at least an acknowledgement. I am in no way trying to insult binnyboy, I should add, but in a debate about Christian theology, I'd rather not feel forced to choose the "other" box every time.

Okay, rant over. Hope it didn't come across as too annoyed or combative, since I hardly meant it to be that way. It?s just been on my mind recently for other reasons, and this thread provided a nice space for me to whine a bit.

Oh, and I guess I should add that my initial reaction, which I summed up in this thread, was not to the topic of discussion, but the poll. I think that discussing the differences between Catholic and Protestant views of predestination is a very valid topic, and Orthodoxy does not even need to be included in the debate for it to stand on it's own. But still, I want some love in the poll options!

hey smog

Sorry... I tried to be sensitive about this... I don't know much at all about orthodoxy. I'd be glad to hear a brief overview if you'd like to give it. Sorry I missed it... I'll add it now.

hmmmm how do I add an option?

Can it not be done after a poll has begun?

Wikipedia has a pretty thorough description of Orthodoxy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodoxy.

The main differences from Catholicism: Orthodox churches use icons, especially Russian churches. Varying degrees of importance placed on the individual sacraments and the processes in which they are administered. Slight differences in the Creed and Lord's Prayer. Theological opinions of the importance of faith and good works. And the structure of the church itself--each Archdiocese is seen as independent and of equal authority, altough the Archbishop of Constantinople generally is seen as having the most wisdom or insight.

There are probably more differences, and I have probaby given some slightly inaccurate information, but this was just off the top of my head.

And don't worry about adding Orthodoxy into the poll, since I don't think you can change polls, and it's not quite as big of a deal as I may have made it seem.

As for the topic of predestination, I'm fairly sure that Orthodox theologians do not think it's a valid theory, since great importance is placed on good works and faith in determining an individual's salvation.

Oh, before I go, I'll give an interesting tidbit! Luther, as he was pondering the problem of the authority of the Roman Catholic Pope, learned that a whole different set of churches existed to the East; he had no prior knowledge whatsoever of Orthodoxy. He then used this in his theology, saying that Catholism cannot be the "true" church, since the true church should contain all Christians everywhere. This gave Luther that last little push he needed to combat papal authority, although I don't think he ever actually commented on the validity of Orthodoxy, which I find odd and incomplete, yet still somewhat flattering.

I'm not that sure about Luther's (et. al. Protestant/Evangelical reformators of the early Modern Times) lack of knowledge of Orthodoxy.
Certainly, they studied this when being at the theologcal faculties.

(During a debate with his Roman Catholic theological opponents, Luther chided the Roman side for casting a slur on the Eastern Orthodox Church. He reminded them that the Eastern Church was half of the Church of Christ and that, as far as he was concerned, it was the "better half" [sic!!! - thats where that popular term comes to us from!].)



(Some additional reading: 16th Century Lutheran & Orthodox Exchange )

Well, I was basing that on a passage in the later part of Heiko Oberman's Luther: Man Between God and the Devil, but I'll admit that I don't remember it all that clearly and probably embellished a bit for the sake of being dramatic or something.

Although, actually, I think that Luther may have first heard about Orthodoxy in some his studies at seminary, and he may have been initially shocked. Now I wish I had this book still... Oh well.

There are certainly some better books on the market than this collection of (mostly) unfinished essays by Oberman.

Better for seeing Luther's life as a whole, probably, but I think Oberman does a good job talking about the constant fear of the Devil in which Luther lived.

I agree with Fbaezer. I was raised in a very stricht catholic environement, and taught that predestihation was a mistake of protestants.

niether there both shockin:P