10
   

Catalonia wants out; Spain says no

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2017 05:52 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
I thought the EU would condemn it outright.
Based on what? I do think, we would get more anti-EU sentiments in many other countries if the EU gets involved in even more domestic affairs without a legal mandate.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2017 05:54 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Based on what?


A fevered imagination.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2017 06:13 am
Actually, some Catalans are since more than a week trying to get strategy to bring the case before the European Court of Human Rights [to avoid uneducated responses: the ECHR is not an EU-institution and not related to the EU but part of the European Council].


However, the The Venice Commission (the consultative body for the CoE) said last week, the vote "does not meet" the commission’s standards for a fair referendum, as it is not recognised by the Spanish Government or its constitution. (The commission’s secretary general Thomas Markert did make the point of referencing the 2014 Scottish referendum, highlighting it as an example of a fair, legally-approved vote as it gained the support of the UK government.)

Despite that, the Catalan government really should take legal action and bring the case before the European Court of Human Rights.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2017 06:15 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Thanks. I've been reading--to get some background context.

The immigration quota seems to be a bit problematic. I'd read about in conjunction with Germany, because press here covers some German issues. Poland and Hungary, not so much.

So, somebody actually built a wall? I thought we were the first to come up with that seemingly lunatic idea.
Lash
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2017 06:16 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Because old ladies were beaten in the streets.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2017 06:37 am
@Walter Hinteler,
You’re so funny. Trying to wrangle an angle to mangle my meaning.

It’s cheap to play that game. Why not just speak to the issues honestly with a little integrity.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2017 06:43 am
@Lash,
Seriously: how is the EU or an EU-institution involved? (I can't imagine that you really mean "Because old ladies were beaten in the streets").

Why don't you try to stay on your self-chosen topic?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2017 07:00 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Lash wrote:
I thought the EU would condemn it outright.
Based on what? I do think, we would get more anti-EU sentiments in many other countries if the EU gets involved in even more domestic affairs without a legal mandate.

Why should Donald Trump condemn a KKK march? Gee, that had the usual suspects here screaming and crying for days. Why?

For the same reason the EU’s response was a gauge of where they stand in the violent attack of Catalans young and old as they tried to vote.

People are routinely indignant when aligned leadership and associations refuse to take a stand against violence—certainly a violent police action against citizens trying to vote.

The EU threatened Catalonia with the inability to retain belonging in the EU if they voted to separate from Spain. They are clearly manipulating the Catalans, so it is clear that the EU has a vested interest.

These facts lead the EU to be viewed as an accessory after the fact.

Walter Hinteler
 
  5  
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2017 07:27 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Why should Donald Trump condemn a KKK march? Gee, that had the usual suspects here screaming and crying for days. Why?
Well, I think, he's the President of the USA.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2017 07:31 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
For the same reason the EU’s response was a gauge of where they stand in the violent attack of Catalans young and old as they tried to vote.
Spain is an independent country, member of the EU (European Union, an economic and political union between 28 independent European countries).
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2017 07:33 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
The EU threatened Catalonia with the inability to retain belonging in the EU if they voted to separate from Spain. They are clearly manipulating the Catalans, so it is clear that the EU has a vested interest.
Threatened? Because there are rules? (Scotland got the same response, but they had had a legal referendum.)

Actually, the Delegation of the Government of Catalonia to the European Union had released their thoughts about that weeks ago ... but they don't feel threatened, since they know what they are talking about.
(The representative of the Government of Catalonia in Germany said similar yesterday - additionally, she wants the EU to be a mediator between her government and the Spanish)
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2017 07:52 am
See what prominent Catalonians day about EU’s responsibility.
I’m with Catalonia.
This was prior to the military crackdown.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/859932/catalonia-referendum-news-independence-eu-help/amp

One snippet:
Catalonia's separatist government has called the vote for 1 October, and the Spanish government is trying to hinder the efforts.

Catalan foreign affairs representative Raul Romeva, speaking in Brussels said that EU institutions need to "understand that (the referendum) is a big issue."

Mr Romeva's comments came the day after Catalan regional president Carles Puigdemont accused the EU of "turning its back" on Catalonia in its conflict with Spain's central government.

The Spanish leadership has rejected the vote as illegal.

Another excerpt:
The mayor of Barcelona Ada Colau said the EU cannot remain passive on the disputed Catalan referendum.

She called on the EU Commission to mediate between Catalonia and the Spanish government, as the tensions grow.

She said: “Europe cannot allow itself to adopt a passive position over the Catalan question, seeing that the events going on in Barcelona are affecting Paris, Madrid, Brussels, and Berlin alike.”

Sunday's vote will be the region's second referendum for independence in three years.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2017 07:55 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
This was prior to the military crackdown.
Just that I understand it: to what "military crackdown" are you referring?

Otherwise: the Express report gives nothing new (though it isn't a "separatist government" but a "regional government" in Catalonia)
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2017 07:56 am
https://www.google.com/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/01/eu-crisis-catalonian-referendum-descends-violence/amp/

EU in crisis...? That’s the headline.
Excerpt:
The brutal scenes of police cracking down on the referendum plunged the EU into a new crisis after hundreds of people were injured in the violent stand-offs with Spanish police.

In violent scenes beamed around the world, officers in riot gear fired rubber bullets into crowds and beat would-be voters with batons as they queued at polling stations.

The Catalan government claimed 844 people were injured.
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2017 07:57 am
Perhaps you should read, Walter. My most recent post should clear that up for you.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2017 07:59 am
@Lash,
Certainly you'll find more anti-EU media than the Express and the Telegraph ...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2017 08:02 am
@Lash,
Thank you. The Torygraph might be the infinite source of wisdom for you, not for me.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2017 08:33 am
Rather than saying, “I don’t like the slant or reputation of that news outlet,” how about, “I challenge that statement because...”

Just seems like an empty dodge.

But, dodging does characterize your responses on this topic, and that happens frequently when we are emotionally invested in defending political parties and government entities.

Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2017 08:38 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
So, somebody actually built a wall? I thought we were the first to come up with that seemingly lunatic idea.
Today is a public holiday here, the Day of German Unity. So I really thought, you made a joke.

We did have a wall here, in Berlin, as well as borden fences along the border to the GDR since 1961.
Within the EU we have border fences (= fences, no walls) by Spain in Ceuta and Melilla since many years.

But in my post I referred to the border fence built in 2015 by Hungary on its border with Serbia and Croatia.

All that has been reported ... even in all (sic! but excluding the Washington Examiner papers you usually like to quote from.

izzythepush
 
  4  
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2017 08:53 am
@Lash,
Like claiming someone said something and then being unable to back that up. I really don't know why Walter bothers with you, you don't want to learn you just want to broadcast a load of propaganda, half of which you've just made up.

You don't like EU because it's a rival trading bloc to America, and is a bastion against American hegemony. As a Trump supporter you don't like the EU because its healthcare, worker's rights, food standards and human rights legislation threaten to profits of the filthy rich.

The EU has very little to do with what's happening in Catalonia now. There's no military crackdown going on, there's a strike.

Quote:
Crowds are thronging central Barcelona and blocking roads across Catalonia in a protest strike over police violence during the independence referendum.
There is little public transport, after Catalan trade unions called the strike to show public anger at Spanish police tactics during Sunday's disputed vote.
More than 50 roadblocks caused big traffic jams. Barcelona port was at a standstill, union sources said.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41479048

Real news, not made up ****.
0 Replies
 
 

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