11
   

Catalonia wants out; Spain says no

 
 
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2018 07:38 am
This is a great lesson in bias in journalism. Walter brought an article calling the new Catalan president a separatist hardliner...

https://www.democracynow.org/2018/5/15/headlines/catalan_parliament_elects_pro_independence_candidate_as_president

I think I’ll refer to him as a pro-independence president.

The Catalan Parliament has elected a pro-independence MP as president, seven months after Spain took direct control of Catalonia following its independence referendum.

Roger Torrent: “Sixty-six votes yes, 65 votes no, and four abstentions. Mr. Quim Torra has had 66 votes, which means he has achieved a simple majority and, according to Article 4.4, is elected president of Catalonia’s Generalitat.”
Quim Torra will now succeed former Catalonia President Carles Puigdemont, who is in exile in Berlin, where he awaits a German court’s decision on whether to extradite him to Spain on charges of rebellion. Other members of Puigdemont’s administration have been imprisoned on charges of rebellion and misuse of public funds for having organized the independence referendum, which sparked the biggest constitutional crisis in Spain since the end of the Franco dictatorship in the 1970s.

___________________

Democracy Now!
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2018 08:16 am
@Lash,
The history of Roman Hispania, the Reconquista and the creation of Spain are seen differently by the Spanish and the Catalan Separatists.

When Germany was united in 1871, four independent kingdoms, six independent Grand Duchies, six independent Duchies, seven independent Principalities, three independent Free Cities and the Imperial Territory of Alsace-Lorraine became Germany. (German nationalty, however, was only created (=own passport) in 1913 resp. 1914. The German emperor was only commander-in-chief in war times for the Bavarian troops etc etc)

However, all those above mentioned territories had got formerly independent territories as well (especially Prussia and Bavaria)

You can't seriously go back in time to ... 1870, 1648 or - regarding Catalonia - 1492 in my opinion.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2018 08:28 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Yes, the rhetoric definitely connotes differing perspectives.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2018 11:08 am
@Lash,
I'm really interested about the future of Catalunya del Nord (French Catalonia) - they were part of the County of Barcelona, the Crown of Aragon, and became only French after the Treaty of the Pyrenees.
Some 470,000 people live in the Pyrénées-Orientales. Shouldn't they be including in a vote about independence?

The changes due to the Treaty of the Pyrenees are also seen in French north: la Flandre française - which is like "little Belgium", including French and Dutch as languages. (Not German*, though.)
French Hainaut was ruled by Habsburgs before the treaty as well.


*Edit: the German-speaking Community of Belgium is one of the three federal communities in Belgium, with an own government and an own parliament.
A a recent move to rebrand the region from Deutschsprachige Gemeinschaft Belgiens (German-speaking Community of Belgium) to the snappier Ostbelgien (East Belgium) has caused ripples of alarm in Wallonia, the primarily French-speaking half of Belgium that contains and funds the German-speaking lands ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2018 11:17 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Julian Assange’s intervention on Catalan independence created a rift between the WikiLeaks founder and the Ecuadorian government, which has hosted Assange for nearly six years in its London embassy, the Guardian has learned.
[...]
Julian Assange’s intervention on Catalan independence created a rift between the WikiLeaks founder and the Ecuadorian government, which has hosted Assange for nearly six years in its London embassy, the Guardian has learned.
The Guardian

(Related to Assange/Ecuardor: Revealed: Ecuador spent millions on spy operation for Julian Assange)
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 May, 2018 12:10 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Catalonia: President forms government without jailed or exiled ministers
Quote:
After weeks of stalemate, Catalonia's separatist president has nominated an administration without jailed or exiled former ministers. The move is an attempt to clear the way for Madrid to end direct rule in the region.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Wed 30 May, 2018 12:42 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I'm not aware of any independence movement in French Catalogne.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 May, 2018 03:05 am
@Olivier5,
Bad influence Wink Actually, this seems to be very similar to the Basques: supporting the "Spanish relatives" a bit or even a bit more, but otherwise keep the situation as it has been since centuries.
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Wed 30 May, 2018 05:13 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Indeed the same pattern applies to Basque sepatatism: it's markedly stronger in Spain than in France.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Jun, 2018 03:32 am
Quote:
Mariano Rajoy's controversial and scandal-mired tenure as Spanish prime minister seemed all but certain to end on Friday after a small Basque party threw its weight behind a no-confidence motion tabled after Rajoy's party was found to have profited from a huge corruption racket.

The Basque Nationalist party (PNV) revealed on Thursday it had decided to back the motion, with a vote due on Friday, and deliver the key support required to oust Rajoy of the People's party (PP) and replace him with Pedro Sánchez of opposition socialist, PSOE.

The PNV's five votes -- together with the support of groupings including the anti-austerity Podemos party, the two Catalan pro-independence parties and another Basque party -- gave the PSOE 180 votes in Spain's 350-seat congress, four more than were needed.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/31/mariano-rajoy-spain-prime-minister-no-confidence-debate
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Jun, 2018 04:12 am
@oralloy,
Do you think that the next Spanish PM (most probably Socialist Pedro Sánchez) will (try to) change the Spanish constitution? Or that the (next) Spanish parliament will do it?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Jun, 2018 05:45 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Schleswig-Holstein's general public prosecutor's office has requested the extradition of Puigdemont to Spain. They filed an application with the Higher Regional Court to declare the former regional president's extradition admissible, the office announced today (Friday).
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Jun, 2018 08:32 am
@Walter Hinteler,
More here @ DW: German prosecutors file extradition request against Carles Puigdemont
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Fri 1 Jun, 2018 10:24 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Hopefully the new team will try a defter, less brutal approach to the Catalonia problem.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Jun, 2018 05:39 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Do you think that the next Spanish PM (most probably Socialist Pedro Sánchez) will (try to) change the Spanish constitution? Or that the (next) Spanish parliament will do it?
I have no idea. I really know nothing about Spanish politics.

I just heard it on the news and had the same thought that Olivier did. Hopefully the new government will do things much differently.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Jun, 2018 07:58 am
Catalan nationalists have regained control of the region after a new government was sworn in.

The view from Spain: New Catalan government sworn in, paving way for suspension of direct rule
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2018 04:34 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Catalan leader calls for end to 'indisputable unity' of Spain
Quote:
The Catalan independence leader Jordi Sànchez who has been in prison for eight months, has called on the Spanish government to reconsider its adherence to the principle of “the indisputable unity of the homeland”, saying it is the only way out of the political crisis.

Sànchez, a regional MP and former leader of the Catalan National Assembly, is facing sedition and rebellion charges over the part he played in demonstrations in the run-up to the unofficial independence referendum last October.

In an interview with the Guardian conducted before Pedro Sánchez replaced Mariano Rajoy as prime minister, the Catalan politician called for a complete overhaul of Madrid’s approach to “the most important political crisis” Spain has experienced since its return to democracy following the death of the dictator Francisco Franco.

“The only way to restore democratic and political normality is a paradigm shift,” said Sànchez. “Spain has to exchange the principle of the indisputable unity of the homeland for the principle of the indisputable mandate of the popular will of citizens expressed at the ballot box.”

The Spanish government’s direct control over the region lapsed on Saturday after the new Catalan president, the hardline nationalist Quim Torra, abandoned plans to reappoint jailed or fugitive members of the previous administration.

Catalonia is divided over the independence issue: the overwhelming majority of Catalans want a referendum agreed by the central and regional governments, and the vote called by the ndeposed Catalan president Carles Puigdemont was shunned by unionists. 90% of participants opted for independence on a turnout of 42%.

“We are facing an indisputable democratic challenge,” said Sànchez. “We are debating whether to move towards the 21st century or to cling to the Francoist impositions of the transition [to democracy] which also informed the current constitution when it comes to judicial power, the unity of Spain and the monarchy.”

He lamented the lack of communication between Puigdemont’s government and “the state powers”, calling it “the principle mistake” of recent years. “In politics, even in the worst moments of a crisis, there have to be communication channels,” he said.

“They have ceased to exist in the political conflict in Catalonia and the interlocutors have faded away. We’ve had more than five years of non-existent dialogue and now we’re suffering the consequences.”

A change of tack in Catalonia, he said, would allow the Spanish government to abandon its forceful approach as well as permitting the judicial authorities to “stop violating the political rights of elected people”.

Pedro Sánchez, who relied on the support of the two main Catalan pro-independence parties to depose Rajoy in a no-confidence vote on Friday, has said he will engage in dialogue to try to resolve Catalonia’s “institutional crisis”.

But he said any negotiations would have to abide by the constitution, which stresses the “indissoluble unity of the Spanish nation”.

Jordi Sànchez was one of the candidates whom Puigdemont tried to appoint as a successor but the move came to nothing after Spain’s supreme court refused to allow him out of prison to attend an investiture session.

Amnesty International is among the group’s calling for Sànchez’s release, arguing that his continuing detention is excessive and disproportionate. Sànchez also defended Torra against accusations of anti-Spanish bias that have arisen from his past tweets and articles.

“He’s an affable, discreet person who’s open to dialogue, who holds deep democratic convictions and whose political motivations are based on the right to self-determination,” said Sànchez.

“He doesn’t have much political experience but he’s had a long civic and cultural career. Some of his past words and written opinions are unfortunate, but they represent neither the views nor the traditions of the independence movement, which is solidly rooted in the principles of political liberalism.”

Sànchez said he was in good health but added: “The most difficult thing is seeing how prison is as much of – or more of – a punishment for my children, my partner and my parents.”

Andreu van den Eydne, a lawyer for two other jailed Catalan leaders, the former vice-president Oriol Junqueras and the former foreign minister Raül Romeva, - said his clients were also struggling with the effect their detention was having on their families.

The deposed ministers are also in jail in Madrid under strict conditions that require their families to travel more than 400 miles to see them once a week. Apart from a familial two-hour visit once every three months, the only contact is through glass on a telephone.

Junqueras has been in jail since November despite offerings to hand over his passport and the provision of substantial bail.

“He is adapting, and strong, but suffering. He has two kids: five and seven years old,” Van den Eydne said. “Romeva, with children aged nine and 11, has been in prison for two months, even though he had obeyed all police orders applied to his bail. It is very tough to go to prison, see your father and then say goodbye.”

No full trial is expected to start until the autumn by which time Junqueras will have been in jail for 10 months.

They are facing charges of rebellion, punishable with a prison sentence of 30 years or sedition punishable with 15 years in jail.

The charge of rebellion requires proof of the use of violence, but Van den Eydne said the Catalan independence movement has prided itself on a non-violent approach.

“The charges are based on so little evidence that it feels designed to make the public regard lesser charges of sedition seem fair,” he said. “There was no violence. We are talking about civil rights, and the right to vote, but the prosecution want to reduce the scope of the trial, and we have to make it wider.”
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jun, 2018 11:25 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Spanish minister calls for constitutional reform in wake of Catalan separatist push
Quote:
But the socialist-led government will have a hard time succeeding in such a task as it requires a super-majority. The rise of a Socialist leader in Madrid has raised hopes of a possible dialogue with Barcelona.

Spain's minister for regional affairs, Meritxell Batet, called on Saturday for constitutional reform, saying there was an urgent need for it with regard to the ongoing political conflict between the central government and the regional administration in Catalonia.

Batet made her comments during a public appearance in Barcelona.

"The territorial pact from the '78 constitution is in crisis," she said, "nobody can deny it."

She said the ruling Socialists wanted to amend the Spanish Constitution to move toward a "federal model."

But changing the constitution is a tall order in a legislature in which the Socialists control just 84 of the 350 seats in parliament: It would require the support of a two-thirds majority. But the conservative People's Party, which holds 134 seats, has veto power over any measure adn have blocked reforms in the past.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2018 10:33 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Spain's Basques form 200km human chain calling for independence vote
Quote:
Tens of thousands of people from Spain's autonomous Basque Country have joined hands to form a 202- kilometer human chain. The gesture comes as locals push for the right to hold an independence referendum.

More than 175,000 people in Spain's Basque Country joined to form a 202 kilometer-long human chain on Sunday, as they called for the right to host a referendum on independence form Madrid.

The chain extended from the city of San Sebastian all the way to the Basque parliament in Vitoria-Gasteiz, the capital of the autonomous region.

The protest was organized by the Basque group Gure Esku Dago (In Our Own Hands).

The Basque Country enjoys higher levels of self-determination than any of Spain's other sixteen regions, with its own police force, education system, language and special financial arrangement with Madrid.

While polls suggest that a vast majority of Basque people do not support full independence (only around 15 percent back total secession from Madrid), many nevertheless believe that the people should have the right to vote on the issue.

However, the Spanish government and the constitutional court maintain that any regional plebiscite on independence is illegal.

The Spanish Constitution, created in 1978 following the end of General Francisco Franco's dictatorship, states that the country is indivisible, referring to the "indissoluble unity of the Spanish Nation."
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jul, 2018 06:00 am
@Walter Hinteler,

Inés Arrimadas: ‘We’re all Catalans and we all deserve respect’
Quote:
Leader of pro-unity party accuses Spanish PM of ‘being mortgaged’ to separatists

Spain’s new Socialist prime minister is due to meet the hardline nationalist president of Catalonia on Monday amid warnings that Madrid must defend national unity and avoid making any concessions to the separatists who have triggered the country’s most serious political crisis since its return to democracy 40 years ago.

Pedro Sánchez, who took office at the beginning of June after ousting Mariano Rajoy through a no-confidence vote, has shown a more conciliatory approach to the Catalan controversy than his conservative predecessor and has sought to reduce tensions.

Earlier this month, six of the nine Catalan leaders facing charges of sedition, rebellion and misuse of public funds were moved from prisons near Madrid to jails in Catalonia in what was widely seen as a gesture of good faith.

However, while welcoming the talks, the Catalan president, Quim Torra, has made it clear that he will seek a referendum on self-determination. The call will be given short shrift by Spain’s socialist government, which is adamant that the right to self-determination does not exist in the country’s constitution.

Sánchez has instead suggested that parts of the constitution could be reviewed once temperatures have cooled and the powers of Spain’s central and regional governments re-examined.

Inés Arrimadas, the leader of the Catalan branch of the centre-right Ciudadanos party, which won the largest share of the vote in last December’s regional elections, has accused Torra’s government of neglecting and alienating the majority of Catalans who do not support independence.

“What really hurts me most is them portraying all Catalans as pro-independence,” she told the Guardian.

“That’s not true. Right now in Catalonia, there’s a big and very important minority of people who want independence and a majority of Catalans who don’t. But we’re all Catalans and we all deserve respect and a government that respects and defends all of us. But they don’t see that because their thinking is exclusive.”

Arrimadas accused Sánchez of “being mortgaged” to the separatist parties after relying on their support to topple Rajoy, whose People’s party has been embroiled in a series of corruption scandals.

“The PSOE got into government without a plan for government or a parliamentary majority and they’re improvising,” she said. “The only decisions they’ve taken so far are the ones that benefit the nationalists.”

She said existing electoral law needed to be changed as it meant that Catalan separatist parties were over-represented in parliament.

“In Catalonia, the pro-independence parties have 47% of the vote – not even a simple majority – but an absolute majority in seats because of the law that favours them,” she said. “That’s unfair and it’s crazy. In what country would you have a law that gives more power to those who want to break up the country?”

Arrimadas said Sánchez needed to understand that the country required reform, adding: “There can’t be any hang-ups when it comes to defending values such as the equality of the union and the solidarity of Spaniards just as we defend those values in Europe.”

Ciudadanos, which was riding high in the polls before the motion of no-confidence, refused to back Sánchez’s efforts to topple Rajoy. However, Arrimadas rejected suggestions that the party had misjudged the public mood and found itself on the wrong side of history.

“In Spain, no-confidence votes are constructive: it’s not just about showing that you’re rejecting something, it’s also about voting in favour of the alternative,” she said.

“We didn’t want Rajoy’s People’s party … or the alternative that was voted in. We wanted people to have the chance to choose a new, strong government at the ballot box – and one that wouldn’t need the nationalists to govern.”

Arrimadas said last year’s illegal independence referendum and the subsequent unilateral declaration of independence had left Catalan society deeply fractured.

Torra’s government, she said, would do better to stop obsessing over independence and focus instead on issues that affect all Catalans, such as healthcare, employment, infrastructure and the fight against corruption.

Arrimadas also called on the new Catalan president to respect the views of pro-unity Catalans.

“He’s a person who’s written hundreds of xenophobic and supremacist articles. If this gentleman talked about other groups – other races, other religions – the way the talks about Catalans who don’t support independence, he wouldn’t be able to carry on in politics,” she said.

“But because it’s only us he’s talking about, it seems there’s no problem. We’re used to being shamed. But we can’t have a government that humiliates millions of Catalans.”
 

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