1
   

Courts should let parents be parents.

 
 
au1929
 
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2004 09:20 am
What is your "take" on the ruling of the Washington State SC?

Courts should let
parents be parents


Just in time for the holidays, the Washington State Supreme Court has ruled that children have an expectation of privacy at home and parents cannot eavesdrop on phone conversations. The case involved a 17-year-old boy who told his 14-year-old girlfriend that he mugged an old lady, knocking her to the ground and stealing her purse. The mother of the girl, Carmen Dixon, was listening on another phone line and called police.

Oliver Christensen was subsequently convicted of a felony and served nine months in prison before the judges overturned the conviction, saying, "The right to individual privacy holds fast even when the individuals are teenagers." The court also said the mother was acting as an agent for the police.

So now parents in Washington cannot snoop around, even if a child is having a phone conversation with a mugger, dope dealer or child molester. Listen up, Seattle parents: You have no right to know.

The Associated Press, no bastion of conservative analysis, called the ruling "a victory for rebellious teenagers."

Of course, the American Civil Liberties Union loves the ruling. ACLU Attorney Douglas Klunder filed a brief saying, "I don't think the state should be in the position of encouraging parents to act surreptitiously and eavesdrop on their children."

Of course not. Why would any parent want to know their 14-year-old daughter was chatting up a 17-year-old criminal? Parents shouldn't be proactive in scrutinizing their children in this age of Internet sex, drug dealers in school hallways and alcohol-fueled sleepovers. Better to let the teens crash and burn instead of keeping a close eye (or ear) on them, right, ACLU?

This is yet another intrusion by the American courts into the parent-child relationship. Traditionally, the state ceded all child-raising responsibilities to parents except in cases of child abuse and neglect. But that is changing. Now your offspring has rights, and you'd better not violate them.

Interestingly, it is the totalitarian societies that historically have interfered with the parent-child relationship, something the ACLU might want to ponder. In Nazi Germany, parents were encouraged to turn their kids over to the "Hitler Youth." In the Soviet Union, Red China and Cuba, children were taught in school to inform on parents who spoke disparagingly of the government. Breaking down parental influence makes it easier for the state to "persuade" young people to be loyal.

This case is yet another example of how American society is changing rapidly and drastically. Judges in liberal areas like western Washington often have a social agenda and make rulings based upon their vision of a "just" society. No longer can we count on the courts to uphold traditional law or even to respect the intent of the law. Now we are faced with rulings that come down to "improve" the law.

Today, American children are subjected to more temptations at an earlier age than ever before. Machines filled with harmful material dominate their lives. Instant messaging and cell phones have created opportunities for mischief only dreamed of in years past.

But don't you listen to any of that. The Washington State Supreme Court says you can't.
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,611 • Replies: 14
No top replies

 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2004 09:37 am
Who wrote this? Can you provide a link?
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2004 09:47 am
It was written by Bill O'Reilly and appeared in this AM's New York Daily News.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2004 10:40 am
If that's true then there can be no informants or witnesses as they would all be acting as agents of the police.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2004 10:43 am
While O'Reilly didn't get his essential facts wrong, it is what he left out of his essay that causes some problems.

In Washington state, using any device to listen in or to record a conversation without the permission of at least one of the participants is illegal.

The mom listened in, called the cops and the kid was convicted based on her testimony. Her testimony was based on information she received illegally.

Thats why the conviction was overturned.

The ruling in no way interferes with either of the kid's parents ability to discipline them or to turn them in to the cops or anything else. If the kid had been convicted without the girl's mother's testimony the conviction would have most likely stood.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2004 10:51 am
boomerang

The conviction aside. The court as I understand it made the listening in on a conversation even by your child on your phone in your home was illegal. Subject to criminal charges and jail time.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2004 11:05 am
I haven't heard anything that speaks of limiting parent's ability to snoop, au, but I'm certainly no lawyer. I did read this about Oregon law in an article in our daily paper yesterday though:

Moreover, privacy laws establish legal boundaries between teens' desire for independence and parents' responsibility to keep their children safe. In Oregon, the law is currently unclear. One state statute prohibits anyone from using a device to "obtain" a phone, radio or other oral communication without permission from at least one participant or informing all participants. The law, however, specifically exempts families if they do these things in the home. But another statute prohibits anyone, presumably including families, from using devices to listen in on or record other people's phone or other oral conversations without their consent. Violating either statute is a Class A misdemeanor, punishable by a maximum of one year in jail and $6,250 in fines.

As far as I know, it hasn't been tested in court. It might be interesting to see what happens. I imagine that parent's rights to know what their kids are up to would win out.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2004 11:17 am
au1929 wrote:
boomerang

The conviction aside. The court as I understand it made the listening in on a conversation even by your child on your phone in your home was illegal. Subject to criminal charges and jail time.


I've not read the opinion, but I gathered as much from O'Reilly, and I assumed he was incorrect. I'm nearly positive I heard an attorney he was interviewing try and explain this to Bill, but he didn't seem to want to believe that the extent of the opinion was to limit the admission of evidence into a criminal case against the child.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2004 11:25 am
I tried to find the opinion but without a case name or number I don't stand much of a chance.

One of the very interesting comments in our paper yesterday (I can't remember if it was from the minister or from the psychologist they interviewed) said something to the extent that if a parent must resort to snooping to know what is happening in their kid's lives then chances are they aren't doing a very good job of parenting in the first place.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2004 11:35 am
State of Washington v. Oliver C. Christensen

Some excerpts from the court's opinion (references to statutes and cases omitted: jumps indicated by asterisks: Lacey is the daughter, Christensen the boyfriend/defendant):

We must decide whether this state's privacy act was violated when Mrs. Dixon listened to the conversation between Christensen and Lacey on the base unit of the cordless telephone without their permission. The act provides that it is unlawful for any individual to 'intercept, or record any:'
    {p}rivate communication transmitted by telephone, telegraph, radio, or other device between two or more individuals between points within or without the state by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record and/or transmit said communication regardless how such device is powered or actuated, without first obtaining the consent of all the participants in the communication.
Evidence obtained in violation of the act is inadmissible for any purpose at trial.

There are essentially four prongs in analyzing alleged violations of the privacy act. There must have been (1) a private communication transmitted by a device, which was (2) intercepted by use of (3) a device designed to record and/or transmit, (4) without the consent of all parties to the private communication.

* * *

The State also suggests that there should be an implied exception to the act in the case of minor children, arguing that children have a reduced expectation of privacy because parents have an absolute right to monitor
all telephone calls coming into the family home. The federal wiretap statute, which makes interception of communications legal where one party consents, has been interpreted to permit parents acting to protect the welfare of a child, to consent vicariously for their child to the recording of their child's conversations. The Washington act, with its all-party consent requirement, contains no such parental exception and no Washington court has ever implied such an exception. We decline to do so now.

* * *

While the statute itself is unambiguous, a survey of the legislative history only serves to buttress this conclusion. Since 1909, the privacy act has protected sealed messages, letters, and telegrams from being opened or read by someone other than the intended recipient. In 1967, the legislature amended the act in order to keep pace with the changing nature of electronic communications and in recognition of the fact that there was no law that prevented eavesdropping. In doing so, Washington's privacy statute became 'one of the most restrictive in the nation.'

* * *

CONCLUSION
The Washington privacy statute puts a high value on the privacy of communications. In light of its strong wording, the act must be interpreted to effectuate the legislative intent. Based on the subjective intentions and reasonable expectations of Christensen and Lacey, their conversation was a private one. Based on the plain meaning of the term 'transmit,' we hold that the speakerphone component of the base unit of a cordless telephone is a device designed to transmit under the privacy act. It was error to admit Mrs. Dixon's testimony regarding what she heard over the speakerphone and that error was not harmless.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2004 11:40 am
It looks like they decided on the question before them based on current law and declined to go any further.

That is exactly how the supreme court should behave.

I imagine someone will test the law now to get to the extent of privleged communication.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2004 11:46 am
boomerang wrote:
It looks like they decided on the question before them based on current law and declined to go any further.

That is exactly how the supreme court should behave.

I imagine someone will test the law now to get to the extent of privleged communication.

With an attitude like that, you can no longer be a member of the Bill O'Reilly Clean-Cut Youth Brigade. Please turn in your officially counter-signed membership certificate, your "O'Reilly Ranger Cadet" badge, and your secret decoder ring at the door.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2004 11:48 am
Quote:
Commentary

OPINION

Friday, December 17, 2004

Conservatives like this 'activist' judging

By DARWIN P. ROBERTS
ATTORNEY

Do parents prefer "activist" judges?

Many parents, and other critics, are blasting the Washington Supreme Court for its recent decision that a mother violated the state's Privacy Act when she eavesdropped on her daughter. But would these critics, including some self-professed conservatives, rather have the high court engage in "activist judging"? And does the response to this case suggest that "activist judging" is sometimes appropriate?

Carmen Dixon used a speakerphone to eavesdrop on a phone call between her daughter and her daughter's boyfriend, who was a robbery suspect. The boyfriend was later convicted, based in part on Dixon's testimony about the call. In the appeal of the case, State v. Christensen, the Supreme Court concluded that the eavesdropping was unlawful, because the Privacy Act contains no exception that would permit parents to monitor their children. As a result, Dixon's testimony could not be used and the boyfriend is now entitled to a new trial.

Dixon called the court's decision "ridiculous" and a great many parents agree. They believe it shouldn't be illegal for parents to monitor their children's calls. Some seem to view Christensen as a "liberal" or "activist" encroachment on parental rights. A recent letter to the editor stated that the decision shows the need for "more conservative judges" on the courts.

But the decision can't be dismissed as incorrect, or called "liberal," merely because of its result. In fact, critics who focus solely on the result will miss a crucial point: The reasoning of the case is conservative. In order to hold that Dixon did not violate Washington law, the court would have had to create an entirely new Privacy Act exemption for parents. Creating a new exemption -- in other words, rewriting the law -- can readily be described as "making law" or engaging in "activist judging." In recent months, this has not been considered a complimentary label to attach to a court.

So instead of manufacturing an entirely new exception to the Privacy Act, the court interpreted the law as it was written. Interpreting the law only as written -- "strict construction" -- is usually characterized as a conservative approach to judging. The conservative approach means courts generally will not try to rescue overbroad statutes by reading them "reasonably." Instead, the Legislature must enact any necessary changes. This approach often is styled as more democratic, because legislators are said to be more responsive than judges to the concerns of voters. Indeed, at least one legislator already has responded to the ruling, declaring she will move to exempt parents from the Privacy Act.

Under the conservative approach, however, the Legislature may be too late to fix the immediate consequences of a court decision. Here, the boyfriend will get a new trial and parental eavesdropping is now technically illegal. If those results seem "ridiculous," it suggests that the court possibly should have taken a more "activist" approach.

A more "activist," ends-oriented court might have concluded that the Legislature never intended to prevent parents from monitoring their children. In this case, if the Supreme Court had recognized a common-sense parental exception to the Privacy Act, the rights of parents would have been preserved officially, as would the conviction of the boyfriend. And even this "activist" result would hardly disturb the lawmaking powers of the Legislature. Because the court was interpreting the meaning of the Privacy Act, not its constitutionality, the Legislature readily could overrule the court by amending or re-enacting the act.

But those who oppose "activist judges" should not expect to have it both ways. If judges truly follow the conservative approach and limit their decisions to the law as written, there will be many more cases such as Christensen. The literal application of the law will lead to results that seem "ridiculous." In contrast, if people want judges to reach less "ridiculous" conclusions, they should be willing for judges to interpret the law more broadly, and to sometimes go beyond the literal words of a statute. Put another way, a "conservative" result in this case -- recognizing that parents should have the right to monitor their children, and upholding the boyfriend's conviction -- would require an "activist" method of judicial reasoning.

The case of the eavesdropping mother demonstrates that the work of the courts should not be evaluated solely upon a case's end result. People should also consider whether they want the courts consistently to apply an "activist" or a "conservative" method of reasoning. If so, they should be prepared to accept the real-world consequences of their preferred method.

Darwin P. Roberts practices law in Seattle.
Source
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2004 11:49 am
Awwwww rats!

Can I keep the rose colored glasses though?
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2004 12:05 pm
Thank you, Walter, for posting that essay.

It clearly points out the potential peril of allowing courts to make law.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
  1. Forums
  2. » Courts should let parents be parents.
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 05/05/2024 at 04:35:11