Howard tries out his shiny new deputy's badge....

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After strategically 'excising' bits of Australia in order to thwart people smugglers (you can't land in Australia if we pass a law to say it ISN'T Australia this week), our pint-sized PM has decided to think big.

How big. Real big. The Govt is planning to create a 'security zone' that extends 1,000 nautical miles around the country. This would allow the monitoring and possible interception of any vessel within the zone.

Amazingly, other nearby nations (Indonesia for one) are a bit put out as it extends Australian soverienty well into Sth East Asia. And why? The USA has one....

Quote:

Washington has called on its allies to introduce similar measures.

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Duh it sounds logical.

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There must be some sort of international bench-mark for pissing off other nations in play here. This Govt has also repeatadly said that it will take independent action to pre-emptively strike at 'terror' and we are sourcing suppliers of cruise missiles.

Now, it is pretty obvious that Australia won't be attacked from the east (NZ), the south (Antarctica) or the west (big ocean then Madagascar). So, 'security zone' is shorthand for, 'You sneaky little brown people better not try any funny business'. Of course they just HAPPEN to be the most populous Muslim nation on Earth - of course we should always walk tall and talk tough when dealing with them. Could you imagine how tough Washington would be if there was the 'Islamic Republic of Canada' with a billion or more people sitting on their northern border?

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It all sounds like a continuation of the Indian and Aboriginal wars to me.

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edgarblythe wrote:

It all sounds like a continuation of the Indian and Aboriginal wars to me.

Don't get me started mate. In 1890 we started a fine tradition of sending expeditionary forces overseas on the behest of other countries for the purpose of killing their natives and whites (and why not?) for them. Who would have thought that we'd enshrine such 'history' as a foreign policy?

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You will never ever appease Indonesia. They couldn't give a stuff about Australia no matter what we say. They would have invaded us long ago if there wasn't a big stretch of ocean in between.

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You will never ever appease Indonesia.

Nobody is trying to.

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They couldn't give a stuff about Australia no matter what we say.

That sentence makes no sense.

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They would have invaded us long ago if there wasn't a big stretch of ocean in between.

They would have invaded us with what exactly? The Indonesian military is not even competent enough to maintain control over it's own country. There is more chance of New Zealand invading us than Indonesia.

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Well why is australia funding indonesia all the time with militray training and other aid?

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Adrian wrote:

Quote:
You will never ever appease Indonesia.

Nobody is trying to.

Yes we have!!!!!

We recognised their invasion of east Timor as legitimate - the only country in the world to do so.

We politely never mentioned their awful human rights record under Suharto.

We trained them in INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES when these were being used in human rights violations - doh.

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the man who would be a country says wrote:

Well why is australia funding indonesia all the time with militray training and other aid?

I'll give you three reasons to think about;

1. They are our most strategically important neighour. It helps if that neighour is stable and can maintain it's own borders.

2. Indonesia has a public debt equalling 72.9% of it's GDP, while Australia has a public debt equalling 18.2% of it's GDP.

3. The GDP per capita in Australia is US$29,000. In Indonesia? US$3,200.

The stats come from the CIA which, I assume, you have no problem trusting. :wink:

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australia wrote:

Well why is australia funding indonesia all the time with militray training and other aid?

I think the military training thing has sucked - given what the Indonesian military has often been involved in - but clearly it is meant to make their military like ours and not want to kill them and such. Now, I imagine, we have an investment in their ability to combat terrorism.

The aid is a no-brainer. They are a third world country near us. Aid is good if it helps their teeming millions be happier - and it gives us political leverage.

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It seems stupid to me. We trained their military before and they used their skills to kill a lot of east timorese.

Anyway, like you say, we have to do it for diplomacy and political leverage.

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dlowan wrote:

Adrian wrote:
Quote:
You will never ever appease Indonesia.

Nobody is trying to.

Yes we have!!!!!

We recognised their invasion of east Timor as legitimate - the only country in the world to do so.

We politely never mentioned their awful human rights record under Suharto.

We trained them in INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES when these were being used in human rights violations - doh.

I meant....now. :wink:

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We will appease them as soon as it is humanly possible!!!

As soon as we stop threatening to strike them pre-emptively.

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Adrian wrote:

They would have invaded us with what exactly? The Indonesian military is not even competent enough to maintain control over it's own country. There is more chance of New Zealand invading us than Indonesia.

and we could probably teach them to play cricket - eventually!

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This nation has never been able to 'interface' with the Indonesians in a meaningful manner. Either it's a case of trying to make our interests match their's (ie East Timor) or 'white panic' alarm that the Indonesian military are going to take Darwin for starters and stop at Hobart.

The real answer is too easy and soooooooo sad. The Australian policy in regards to Indonesia is lock-step with the US policy in regards to Indonesia. When the USA indicated it would do nothing to counter Indonesian land snatching we did nothing. When it was politic to ignore the suppression of the Timorese and Papuans we ignored it. US wants better military ties? Australia wants closer military ties. Now the USA wants to persecute Muslims, suprise.... WE WANT TO PERSECUTE MUSLIMS.

Shiny star on Johnny's chest. He can walk TALL in the sherrif's shadow.

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How is your day going stillwater?

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He's a deep one, that Stillwater...

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Yep, he obviously wasn't in bali

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If I were to describe accurately and succinctly my estimation of that post, australia, I might be banned.

I shall content myself by simply saying that you are utterly ignorant of where Stilly might have been, and what his experiences or feelings might be, nor do I see his whereabouts as forming the basis of any rational argument.

Perhaps fortunately, however, you have made no attempt to formulate any such argument.

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Howard tries out his shiny new deputy's badge....

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