Easy citizenship in Europe

It works for Ireland, don't know about other EU countries.

As Ireland is an EU country, a citizen has the right to travel, live and work within the EU.

The Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act of 1956 provides that certain persons born outside of Ireland may claim Irish citizenship by descent.

Anyone born outside Ireland whose grandmother or grandfather, but not his or her parents, were born in Ireland may become an Irish citizen by registering in the Irish Foreign Births Register (FBR) at the Department of Foreign Affairs in Dublin or at the nearest Irish Embassy or Consular Office.

There are also certain limited circumstances where you may be eligible to obtain Irish citizenship through your great-grandmother or great-grandfather. This can be a bit complicated, but basically if your great-grandparent was born in Ireland and your parent used that relationship to register as an Irish Citizen by Descent by the time of your birth, then you are also eligible to register for Irish citizenship. Citizenship by descent is not automatic and must be acquired through application.

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Related Question (about Italian citizenship)
I was just reading this forum and you were extremely helpful with the previous situation so I hoped you could be equally helpful with mine (my thanks in advance);

My father was born in Italy in 1934. His father at the time was a naturalized American citizen. Several years later, my father moved to the United States on an American passport. In other words, my father was an American citizen from birth. However, my question is about whether he was (is?) also an Italian citizen. Does Italian citizenship has a jus soli component? Was it possible at that time to be a dual citizen?

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My belief is that a person born on Italian soil has Italian citizenship. I think that all EU countries are harmonized in this respect. Your local Italian consulate will be able to advise.

is that jure solis?

This page might be useful. It is from the Italian consulate in San Francisco, CA

It is about applying for Italian citizenship under jure sanguinis

law of blood?

http://www.italcons-sf.org/allpages/citizenship.htm

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As far as I know (and could find out), Italian law generally follows the principle of ius sanguinis.

However:

Quote:

On the basis of ius soli ("rights of the soil") Italian nationality can also be acquired by a child born in Italian territory, if:
· the parents of the child are unknown or stateless.
· the parents of the child are of foreign nationality, but their nationality does not pass to the child by the laws of their state.
· the child is found on Italian territory, the parents are unknown, and the possession of another nationality cannot be proved.

source: Provincia di Milano - Ufficio Relazioni con il Pubblico

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contrex wrote:

My belief is that a person born on Italian soil has Italian citizenship. I think that all EU countries are harmonized in this respect.

Well, and I'm quite sure that you are wrong here:
although the 'Treaty of Amsterdam' created in 1997 a EU-citizenship, this didn't effect national citizenship at all: all member states have their own laws. (Germany recently changed from pure ius sanguis to the new law which mixes "ius sanguis" and "ius solis".)

I think (from memory, couldn't find a web source for that) that still the majority of EU-countries tend to prioritise the principle of ius sanguinis, while some others stress the importance of the principle of ius soli.

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Re: Related Question (about Italian citizenship)

asammart wrote:

Was it possible at that time to be a dual citizen?

The concept of dual citizenship means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time, and this has always been possible.

However, a different question is, if one country accepts that its citizens have a second nationality.

I'm not sure about older Italian laws and if and how this could effect your question.

To answer that: your father was an Italian citizen, if your grandfather still was an Italan citzen as well as an US-American - and that easily could by clarfied, as already said above, on the consulate.

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Re: Related Question (about Italian citizenship)

asammart wrote:

My father was born in Italy in 1934. His father at the time was a naturalized American citizen. Several years later, my father moved to the United States on an American passport. In other words, my father was an American citizen from birth. However, my question is about whether he was (is?) also an Italian citizen. Does Italian citizenship has a jus soli component? Was it possible at that time to be a dual citizen?

As Walter already said, italian citizeship follow the "ius sanguinis" (law of blood).

It was possible your grandfather had double citizenship.

However, italian law make a distinction between those born before and after 1948, year of the new italian constitution was promulgated.

As it's to far complex for me to explain this in the whole, you can have all information you need here, in italian :

Information cittadinanza

Cittadinanza italiana

On a specific translation, you can ask me.

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Quote:

LEGGE 5 febbraio 1992, n.91. Nuove norme sulla cittadinanza

Art.11.
1. Il cittadino che possiede, acquista o riacquista una cittadinanza straniera conserva quella italiana, ma può ad essa rinunciare qualora risieda o stabilisca la residenza all'estero.

This means your grandfather, even though naturalized american, as long as he didn't renounce to his previous italian citizenship, was still italian.

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thanks and some clarifications
Thank you all so much for your suggestions--

My grandfather was a naturalized American citizen: wouldn't this mean that he couldn't be a dual citizen? Maybe (probably) I'm not understanding this correctly.

I tried to read the Italian passages that Francis posted. And from what I understood of them (my Italian is very shaky), I can't see how my father would be able to qualify as an Italian citizen. After all, although he was born on Italian soil, he was a recognized child of an American-citizen father so it was seem that the ius soli components of the law don't apply to him. From these passages, I didn't see that this part was affected by the 1948 law revision.

But I think I will contact the consulate and see if maybe I'm missing something here.

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Thanks, Francis - it's really difficult to find with my knowledge of one and a half dozen words in a foreign language (Italian) an Italian law online :wink:

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I assumed your grandfather was an italian citizen before naturalizing american.

If he didn't gave up his italian citizenship (by request), your father was an italian citizen.

If so, by the "ius sanguinis", you can request an italian citizenship. ( As allowed by law).

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naturalization
But Francis, doesn't becoming a naturalized American mean renouncing other citizenships? If this wasn't the case, wouldn't everyone have dual citizenship? (and so anyone w/Italian ancestry would be able to claim Italian citizenship.)

Again, I feel like I must be missing something here. And I really appreciate your collective patience.

(And yes, my grandfather was an Italian citizen before (and after?) becoming naturalized.)

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Yes, many european citizens have double citizenship. I even know some with 3 citizenships.

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Re: naturalization

asammart wrote:

But Francis, doesn't becoming a naturalized American mean renouncing other citizenships?

'Renouncing' means that your grandfather wrote to some Italian official state institution that he 'broke' with his Italian citizenship.

You must consider, however, that some states have laws, which just don't look at such (not knowing what the Italian of 1910/20 said).

And "yes" (nearly) everyone with Italian (and German, for instance) ancestry could claim the citizenship of his anchestors (Germany got some hundred thousand new citizens from former UdSSR - most of their ancestors immigrated in 17th(18th century.)

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I guess this is what I don't get...
When I've looked at online info--they usually say that if someone's parent or grandparent was naturalized before they were born, they cannot claim italian citizenship. This has meant that I have assumed that naturalization invalidated their previous citizenship.

The German situation from E. Europe (at least) is somewhat different, insofar as these are people who retained a right to German citizenship but were not German citizens w/o applying for German citizenship. If they moved to the US instead of Germany, they did not retain the right to German citizenship. Furthermore, these were ethnic Germans who never applied for Soviet citizenship (i.e. they were not naturalized citizens) but rather attained it automatically, thus never renouncing previous citizenships. There is more to this story, but it's kindof off topic, so I'll let it go for now. (I may not know anything about Italian citizenship, but I'm actually a German history professor and have written about German citizenship regulations.)

As always, many thanks.

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Hi guys,

Don't mean to break into somebody else's topic but I have a related question.

I'm a U.S. Citizen who's about to marry an Italian girl. I wasn't aware until yesterday that this gives me the right to Italian citizenship, including a passport. I thought that this would just give me working papers.

Does anybody know anything more about this? I've read that in order to get the passport I:

1. must be married to an Italian woman
2. reside in Italy for six months OR abroad for 3 years

and then I am eligible to apply.

Does anyone know, roughly, how long this application takes? Having the actual passport would be SO much more convenient than getting working papers, because that would give me the right to move around Europe and work freely. (My future wife's and my job requires us to live separately sometimes).

Any help is much appreciated, so thank you very much in advance.

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I've now idea at all, but think, even if you meet two who already did this, their data may vary a lot.

<click> THIS might explain it (from another thread here, thanks to Francis :wink: )

And welcome to A2K, Towne Hall!

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Towne Hall wrote:

I'm a U.S. Citizen who's about to marry an Italian girl. I wasn't aware until yesterday that this gives me the right to Italian citizenship, including a passport. I thought that this would just give me working papers..

Italian citizenship will give you "rights" : passport and so on.
For an italian citizen, no need for "working papers" in EU. You can work in any EU country as long as your employer "declares" you.

Towne Hall wrote:

I've read that in order to get the passport I:

1. must be married to an Italian woman
2. reside in Italy for six months OR abroad for 3 years

and then I am eligible to apply

Yes, you are elegible under this :

Quote:

LEGGE 5 febbraio 1992, n.91.
Nuove norme sulla cittadinanza.

Art.5.
1. Il coniuge, straniero o apolide, di cittadino italiano acquista la cittadinanza italiana quando risiede legalmente da almeno sei mesi nel territorio della Repubblica, ovvero dopo tre anni dalla data del matrimoniio, se non vi è stato scioglimento, annullamento o cessazione degli effetti civili e se non sussiste separazione legale

.

Towne Hall wrote:

Does anyone know, roughly, how long this application takes?

At least, since you are not yet married, six+one month, if you live with wife in Italy. If not, three years+one month at best.

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Re: Easy citizenship in Europe
[quote="ilovelucy21"

If you were born in Germany but your family is Canadian does that make you a german citizen?. Do you have equal right?

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Generally, you don't get German nationality, when born here.

'Equal rights' is a little bit confusing: you have all rights, everyone else has, who's not German (and not from an EU-country) - similar to those, a German has in Canada.

And: welcome to A2K, ilovelucy21!

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Easy citizenship in Europe

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