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Easy citizenship in Europe

 
 
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 12:16 pm
A friend of mine just told me that if your parents or grandparents were born in any country in Europe, then you can become a citizen of that country without all the other hoops that they make you go through. For instance, since my grandmother was born in Naples, I could become a citizen of Italy just by applying and proving that she was born there, and then go there whenever I want, for as long as I want, without getting a work visa.

Could this be true? I hope so. That would be pretty damn sweet.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 24,655 • Replies: 60
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 12:22 pm
Mmmm, not so much.

I had German citizenship when I was born, as hamburger and mrs. hamburger were German citizens at the time. They rescinded their German citizenships, and I would have had to claim it, to retain it, when I was 18.

There were, and are, differing rules and timelines by country. The whole EU thing has probably changed things as well.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 01:02 pm
While the United States and the countries of the (former) British Commonwealth adopt the jus soli as their basic principle of citizenship (nationality), others refer to ius sanguinis [or a combination of both].

I would look in your case, kicky, at the Italian embassy website for further information.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 01:14 pm
It's trickier than that Kicky. I looked into it. My grandmother was born in Italy and was a minor when her parents were naturalised in this country which means she technically never renounced her citizenship. But because my mother was born before the new Italian constitution that allowed citizenship to pass from the mother to the child (before that it could only be passed by the father) the so called citizenship link was broken. So, in short, if your mother/father was born after the constitution was ratified -- I think 1944 or so, then you are golden.

But Walter is right, you should check with the embassy to get a better explanation.
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kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 01:26 pm
Thanks guys. Freeduck, she was born somewhere around 1930 or so. I guess I'm done then. Crap.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 01:35 pm
kickycan wrote:
Thanks guys. Freeduck, she was born somewhere around 1930 or so. I guess I'm done then. Crap.


Your mom or your grandmom? You might still be cool. If your grandmom had your dad/mom after 194? and she never formally renounced her Italian citizenship, you are golden.
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kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 01:43 pm
It was my grandmother that was born in Italy. My parents were both born here, plus, my mother was born in 1942. That doesn't do me any good, does it?
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superjuly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 02:03 pm
Kicky... I would have such a huuuuge reply to this due to the fact that I've done some extensive research on this quite recently (my family is from Italy too - Belluno). Yes, it's true but it is not so simple and it takes some time if you're not in Italy. I don't know about other countries in Europe but I've heard something about Spain, but never looked into it.

You say your grandmother was born in Italy and by maternal descent you are only elegible if your ancestor was born after 1948. Do you have a male ancestor? It doesn't matter how many generations ago, as long as you don't skip any.

I'd gladly answer any questions you have to the best of my ability and knowledge. But believe me when I tell you'd be doing some exteeeensive research in case you'd get into it.

And as a Italian citizen you'd be entitled to all the rights as such not only in Italy but also in most, if not all of the EU members; Living, working, going to school, social assistance, etc.


a-aight? :wink:
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 02:12 pm
kickycan wrote:
It was my grandmother that was born in Italy. My parents were both born here, plus, my mother was born in 1942. That doesn't do me any good, does it?


Yeah, I guess not. Though let me look up the date of the constitution and see.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 02:13 pm
Never mind, just read superjuly's post.
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kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 02:22 pm
superjuly wrote:
Do you have a male ancestor? It doesn't matter how many generations ago, as long as you don't skip any.


I don't know exactly what you mean by this. Is it different with paternal descent? I am pretty sure all three of my other grandparents were born in Italy too, but I think they were all born around the early thirties. Does it matter if they aren't living any more?

Thanks
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 02:30 pm
No, it doesn't matter, and it doesn't matter if that they were born in the thirties. Citizenship, before 1948 passed through the father. In other words, if you have a paternal grandfather who never renounced his citizenship, you can claim citizenship (no matter when they were born) as the citizenship passed from him to your father to you. It's only tricky when the ancestor is on your mother's side.

But it sounds like superjuly can explain better...
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kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 02:33 pm
Holy crap, you mean I might actually be able to do this then? That would be so great!
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 02:37 pm
Here you go.

http://www.italcons-sf.org/allpages/citizenship.htm

Quote:
If you were born in the United States (or any other Country where citizenship is acquired by birth, and any one of the situations listed below pertains to you, you may be considered an Italian citizen. (For each category all conditions must be met).

1) Your father was an Italian citizen at the time of your birth and you never renounced your right to Italian citizenship.

2) Your mother was an Italian citizen at the time of your birth, you were born after January 1st, 1948 and you never renounced your right to Italian citizenship.

3) Your father was born in the United States, your paternal grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of his birth, neither you nor your father ever renounced your right to Italian citizenship.

4) Your mother was born in the United States, your maternal grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of her birth, you were born after January 1, 1948 and neither you nor your mother ever enounced your right to Italian citizenship.

5) Your paternal or maternal grandfather was born in the United States, your paternal great grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of his birth, neither you nor your father nor your grandfather ever renounced your right to Italian citizenship (please note: a grandmother born before 01/01/1948 can claim the italian citizenship only from her father and can transfer it to descendants after 01/01/1948).

NOTE: "Italian citizen at the time of birth" means that he/she did not acquire any other citizenship through naturalization, before the descendant's birth.

0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 02:41 pm
But it looks like that Kicky's parents are American and
have never acuired the italian citizenship. What about
the Grandparents? Did they have dual citizenship or
renounced their italian citizenship?

Your best bet will be to marry an italian girl kicky.
Go for it!
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 02:46 pm
If kicky's grandfathers never renounced their Italian citizenship then his parents (or at least his dad) are Italian citizens by default. Citizenship is transferred to them unless the grandparents renounced (were naturalized). And even then, if kicky's parents were born before the naturalisation process and did not themselves renounce their citizenship, then they are citizens and so is kicky. They just have to claim it.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 02:59 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
If kicky's grandfathers never renounced their Italian citizenship then his parents (or at least his dad) are Italian citizens by default. Citizenship is transferred to them unless the grandparents renounced (were naturalized).


That's the idea behind the ius sanguinis
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superjuly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 04:01 pm
kickycan wrote:
Holy crap, you mean I might actually be able to do this then? That would be so great!


Yeap! And the link that FreeDuck posted looks very informative. The tough part is getting all the paperwork together as you'd have to request all original documents (birth, marriage and death certificates) for every family member that is between you and that relative. They also have to be all dated within the last 3 mos. prior to the request, officially translated into italian and notorized. Hm-hmm... Lots of work.
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kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 08:03 pm
Thanks for all your info guys. Getting all that stuff taken care of may be a huge pain, but I will definitely look into this.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2004 08:08 pm
You'll need to find out when, and if, family members took out U.S. citizenship. At various times - with various countries - they might have had to renounce their Italian citizenship to become Americans.
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