4
   

Democracy is best served by strict separation of...

 
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2005 03:18 pm
Hyper,
What Christian doctrine?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2005 03:32 pm
hyper426 wrote:
how strictly to the laws they produce follow christian doctrine?


Besides the already posed question,which doctrine you mean - European Christian Democratic generally recognise the seperation of state and church as one of their primary charecteristics and are not religious parties .... they say.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2005 04:39 pm
Walter,

I never thought of that before. How does the German Christian Democrat party manage to uphold secularism in government? Has anyone insisted they change the name of their party?
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2005 06:04 pm
parados wrote:
In relooking at the first amendment it raised some interesting points I thought I wuold share
First Amendment:
Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances


There seems to be a pattern of the present Republican administration to make the 1st amendment apply to government.
Examples.
The claim that it is private expression when religious items are on public property.

The WH feels government should have their own "free" press. They pay people in the press to say things. They make fake news reports to play on TV.

The WH creates their own "peacable" assemblies and block other people from access. Bush meetings with citizens are carefully screened to block out citizens that might disagree.


Quote:
I really don't know where you learned what you did Fox. But 2+2 does NOT equal 5


Parados,

I agree, Fox's argument is straight out of the "New American Lexicon." If you'll notice, all the conservatives arguing about the first amendment are arguing exactly the same points. It's the party line, plain and simple. They get away with it on Fox and other Murdoch owned "news" outlets but on an open forum where there is opportunity for challenges, we can see that it falls flat on it's face. It doesn't hold up to rational scrutiny.

Too bad so many people watch only Murdoch. They are instructed to do so in their churches.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2005 06:09 pm
And aptly brainwashed to boot.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Mar, 2005 12:15 am
wandeljw wrote:
Walter,

I never thought of that before. How does the German Christian Democrat party manage to uphold secularism in government? Has anyone insisted they change the name of their party?


I don't think they have any problems at all.

No, I haven't heard of any ongoing plans for chancing the name - the Christian Democratic Party is partying its 60 years of existance these days - the Christian Social Union (the Bavarian party, even more conservative) keeps the "social" in its name as well :wink:
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Mar, 2005 06:25 am
Walter:-

I wasn't sure.It was how I thought our news had presented the story.The French government passed a ban on Islamic dress in girl's schools.If it is still in operation I understood wrong.There was a story later,which I can't vouch for,that the predictable protest had been successful and the ban overturned.
There was a similar case here and the House of Lords ruled in favour of Islamic dress in schools.

Holland has the biggest problem according to the Sunday Times Magazine of Feb 27.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 08:32 am
I was thinking of restating hyper's original question as:
Does democracy require government to be completely secular?

Any comments?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 09:05 am
wande:-

You'd have to define democracy mate.Perhaps we could comment then.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 09:20 am
you and you word definitions, spendius. I know you love words, but......

Yes, I think the Constitution requires and common sense dictates that the government be completely secular.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 09:34 am
Thank you, Lola.

spendius: my only goal is that our little hyper gets the best education possible.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 09:43 am
Lola:-

How can anybody discuss democracy without a definition.Do definitions cause you problems.They certainly do on the Politics mush.

wande:-I too would wish hyper to have a "good education" but what does that mean.Could be the thoughts of Chairman Mao with no definition.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 09:47 am
It means learning as many points of view as possible.......

Give us a good definition of democracy, Spendius. Give us your definition.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 09:48 am
Hey-I just noticed wande's signature.If it's good enough for wande and for Popper it can't be all bad.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 09:51 am
I've never claimed to be more than a sinner. And crime, of a sort is my spec-i-al-ity.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 09:57 am
Lola:-

A good definition requires a lot of thought.It is an "ideal type" you see.An abstract notion.A cynic might say something that means all things to all men (and women of course).The ground has been endlessly tilled and is worn out.Exhausted.The subject should be transferred to the ignorance thread.
When people don't have a clear idea what they are discussing the discussion resolves itself into taking turns to gob off.In such a case ducks quacking make more sense because it's a fair presumption that they know what the quacks mean.

Concentration can prove very difficult for anybody who wishes to learn as many views as possible.It is almost a species of resignation.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 09:58 am
Karl Popper's lectures and essays are fascinating. He specialized in epistemology. His words about clarity and lack of pretentiousness refer to how people should state their theories (natural scientists, social scientists, philosophers, etc.).

spendius: are you sure you are not ignoring Popper's warning about pretentiousness?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 10:01 am
Good old Popper then.

I'd go along with that.Why don't you give it a try.It doesn't hurt unless you are very sensitive.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 10:05 am
quack quack
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 10:11 am
wande:-

What's pretentiousness then.What did I do?

QUACK QUACK!!!! (That's a drake).
0 Replies
 
 

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