bird population decline

Maybe a proliferation of foxes?

I think I'll start breeding rodents.

Our little birdies have to get past the Italian shooters (on their migratory way up from Africa) before the foxes can get at them.

And also, I have hear that a lot of them are being caught (in this country)by poachers who sell them (on the continent) as cage birds.


But, the steep decline in population is not due to these factors.

Are you talking to me? Because, if so, yes, I did consider what you put forth... that's why I quoted it. There wasn't anything in Cinnesthesia's article about climate change so I assumed you were saying something about the government booklet I mentioned.

cjhsa's response was odd, flailing and half-cocked; it almost sounded like a personal attack on someone, or on everyone.

I know I derive more pleasure and fulfillment from feeding wild birds and observing them in my backyard, visiting injured raptors, and having chickadees eat out of my hand than I ever could from killing God's creatures and calling it "sport."

I just take issue with everyone blaming "global warming" for every oddity nature throws at us. It seems silly to me.

And since you're insulting me again, I'll say that sportsmen and woman have done more for god's creatures that any backyard birdfeeder, bunny hugger, or tree sitter ever did.

Prove me wrong.

I really wonder, cjhsa, why you try to crack down threads with all your gun, hunt and no-climate-change related responses.

Is no-one else listening to your arguments elsewhere?

Quote:
Everyone is not blaming global warming.


I'm not "insulting" "you" "again." Stop being paranoid.

Are we not talking about wildlife here? Are we not the stewards of wildlife? Why do you dismiss me?

As a matter of fact my favorite things to hunt are birds, partridge, specifically. They are in their down cycle as well, so I haven't hunted for them in years. When I can go out into the woods and flush a bird an hour, then I will consider hunting them again.

K... Consider the American Bison, the Passenger Pigeon and the Dodo... all were hunted to extinction.

American Bison is doing quite well, not extinct.

The examples you site are from prior to the creation of wildlife management agencies, at the behest of sportmen and women who didn't like not having anything to hunt. Dodo bird is also a bad example, lived only on one island, people got hungry, had no idea they were wiping out a species.

Passenger pigeon I'll give you, but please realize that real hunters respect wildlife laws. Those that don't are called poachers.

our methods of destroying species are much more industrial nowadays. Im aligned with cjha that hunters do more FOR the environment than do backyard habitats. Deep woods nesting birds such as orioles are losing ground because we insist on making "reuburbs " out of every square inch of forest land. Here in Pa, our population hasnt essentially changed since the 60's were about 12-13 million. Yet we have 2 of the 5 fastest growing suburban sprawl areas in the nation.
Many species, like ruffed grouse, are being wiped out because deer management has allowed too damn many deer to stay alive and thus they eat the habitat of other species. We never consider that, by allowing a single species to proliferate, we screw up a large chunk of environment that satisfies the habitat needs of other animals.
There should not be a widening gap between hunters and non-hunters. THEY BOTH WANT A HEALTHY ENVIRONMENT. Yet, by pitting each other against each other, the land rapists have a field day.
Im not an active hunter (past hunter, present fisherman and outdoor channel watcher, and maybe soon turkey hunter again) BUT, I see that Ducks unlimited, United Outdoorsmen, SOTGC, etc all spend good amounts of money on land acquisition, habitat expansion, and open space legislation. Sportsmen put up when it is time to be counted.Never forget that.

Look at the area around Vienna Virginia ior Spotsylvania County, Sportsmen and Civil War organizations have tried to acquire land for protected battlefields and habitats. The local governments (mostly peopled by new yupster ruburbanites) have fought these interests because THEY FRIGGIN WANT THEIR WAL MARTS.
Jeezus H Christ, waiter I want my check please. Everybody wants their bluebirds boxes but nobody (cept the hunters) wantsta get their hands in poop.
We are all for the same end, lets stop the carping about mean hunters or pussy birdwatchers.

Remember, cav said it so well about how he was an appreciator of hunters , mostly because he liked game foods, and he saw it as a Canadian birthright. Well I feel the same damn way, and I get ticked off at how many on the board make it their mission to scramble to some moral high ground because they dont support hunting. Many of us dont give a **** whether you support it or not, just be careful that you dont drive it away because hunters do more for the environment than you wish to recognize.

Sorry for wreckin your thread Bobsmythawk.

Actually, I'd be agreeing with you if you weren't so disagreeable.

So, as a matter of fact, I was not scrambling to moral high ground. Go over my posts if you will and you will see that I have done nothing of the kind. Cjhsa asked to be proved wrong and I thought I'd point out a couple of fairly blatant examples that do prove him wrong. Does he think that "sportsmen" brought the bison back? No... it was ranchers. What killed them off? Fools with guns.

As I'm sure you are aware, Farmerman, there are plenty more amazing examples of animals being killed off by humans... the aurochs and most of the large wild ungulates and all the carnivores in Europe. Whether or not some of the prehistoric creatures... the American camel, the mastadon, etc. were killed by humans is debatable. Of course... you can fall back on saying that all the killing was done by those who weren't "real sportsmen."

What I do not support and took exception to was cjhsa jumping on the global warming bandwagon for no good reason. Look back there and you'll see that nobody... NOBODY... said anything about global warming. Nobody said anything about people causing it either. We were talking about how birdlife seems to be affected by changes in the climate and how that affects their food and their cover. There has been some interesting documentation that looks at that and what might be happening given different scenarios for the future.

99.999% of ranchers own guns.

"fool with guns". I'll tell you who the fools are, they are the unarmed idiots who let criminals walk all over them. This ain't the 1800's anymore, there are laws to protect our wildlife, some good, some stupid. There are also lots and lots of laws that take guns out of the hands of decent, honest citizens and leave them helpless to defend themselves. I see alot of this type of crap eminating from that liberal bastion of coffeedom.

The 2nd ammendment isn't about hunting. I just happen to enjoy the sport.

Piffka. This thread is only one of many that , like the right wingers who "strike first" this is a more liberal mantra. Hunters bad, killing animals , bad. Im a liberal who enjoys the right to hunt and own guns. I see no list of required thinking on the liberal side, so when I saw how this thread degraded from a simple discussion of birds disappearing (mostly via non hunters swiping habitat), to a multimember diatribe.

There are many species that have disappeared , yes hunting some has been the cause.
You talk about the bison. Did a bunch of non hunters get together and suddenly realize that the bison were being slaughtered for their fur and their tongues? No, in fact the very president who most epitomized the "crazy hunter" Teddy Roosevelt, took it as a mission to try to restore habitat and bring the bison back. Please dont take credit for something that hunters have done quite nicely. It was the hunting community that recognized that we wouldnt have these species to hunt much longerunless we (collectively) did omething about it.
Im not gonna argue species by species back to the Tertiary. Lets just say thet, for every group you hold up in admiration (like the ranchers) Ican state with good authority that many of those guys are still killing wolvws and eagles .
The hunter I wish to be associated with is, a person who goes out to hunt for the sport and as a way to gather wild game foods. The true hunter is concerned about species(including overpopulation). The hunter is concerned about the entire web of life , he or she doesnt single out one animal and say "This above all else must be preserved"
Were at a crossroads with species rapidlydisappearing for reasons that rarely include hunting (except in rainforest araes where slimy governmental policies have reduced their people to foraging for "bushmeat"). The hunters have, mostly been a force for conservation and species survival.
And yes, I am disagreeable. Its what I do.

This is another sad and true story that has deeper meanings pinned all over it.

Hello... stop the tirade a minute.... I'm from a fully armed household and Teddy R. is my favorite prez so quit acting like you're the only liberal with a gun. You might be the only liberal with a gun who is proud to be killing wolves and eagles. <shrug> I am fully aware that every wilderness trail I've been on was made by humans searching for game.... and they weren't white-men.

Also... nobody was doing anything about conservation until the early 1900's, so don't try to re-write history. Humans have a bad rap with all animals... one that some of us are trying to change now, but that is one century vs 500,000 years. Some people are trying to change that so they can shoot them again... some others are trying to change it because they marvel at their variety & wonder about the sheer complexity of life. God knows, you can be a carnivore and eat pale-meat white leghorn chicken from a six-level poultry farm for the rest of your life.

This is a thread about the decline of birds. Are you guys denying that? What is most truly helping the interests of wildlife conservation is science and the people willing to go out and do the drudge work to band birds (yay, Bobsmythawk), check their habitats and watch nests & feeding areas. What is truly helping habitat recovery are the many people.... not just the hunters.... who have passed laws to maintain wilderness, to restore damaged habitat and to limit human encroachments.