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Military courts can rely on evidence gained through torture

 
 
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2004 09:37 am
Torture can be used to detain US enemies

WASHINGTON (AP) - U.S. military panels reviewing the detention of foreigners as enemy combatants are allowed to use evidence gained by torture in deciding whether to keep them imprisoned at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, the government conceded in court Thursday.

The acknowledgment by Principal Deputy Associate Attorney General Brian Boyle came during a U.S. District Court hearing on lawsuits brought by some of the 550 foreigners imprisoned at the U.S. naval base in Cuba. The lawsuits challenge their detention without charges for up to three years so far.

Attorneys for the prisoners argued that some were held solely on evidence gained by torture, which they said violated fundamental fairness and U.S. due process standards. But Boyle argued in a similar hearing Wednesday that the detainees "have no constitutional rights enforceable in this court."

U.S. District Judge Richard J. Leon asked if a detention would be illegal if it were based solely on evidence gathered by torture, because "torture is illegal. We all know that."

Boyle replied that if the military's combatant status review tribunals (or CSRTs) "determine that evidence of questionable provenance were reliable, nothing in the due process clause (of the Constitution) prohibits them from relying on it."

Leon asked if there were any restrictions on using evidence produced by torture.

Boyle replied the United States would never adopt a policy that would have barred it from acting on evidence that could have prevented the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks even if the data came from questionable practices like torture by a foreign power.

Evidence based on torture is not admissible in U.S. courts. "About 70 years ago, the Supreme Court stopped the use of evidence produced by third-degree tactics largely on the theory that it was totally unreliable," Harvard Law Professor Philip B. Heymann, a former deputy U.S. attorney general, said in an interview. Subsequent high court rulings were based on revulsion at "the unfairness and brutality of it and later on the idea that confessions ought to be free and uncompelled."

Leon asked if U.S. courts could review detentions based on evidence from torture conducted by U.S. personnel.

Boyle said torture was against U.S. policy and any allegations of it would be "forwarded through command channels for military discipline." He added, "I don't think anything remotely like torture has occurred at Guantanamo" but noted that some U.S. soldiers there had been disciplined for misconduct, including a female interrogator who removed her blouse during questioning.

The International Committee of the Red Cross said Tuesday it has given the Bush administration a confidential report critical of U.S. treatment of Guantanamo detainees. The New York Times reported the Red Cross described the psychological and physical coercion used at Guantanamo as "tantamount to torture."

The CSRT panels, composed of three military officers, usually colonels or lieutenant colonels, were set up after the Supreme Court ruled in June that the detainees could ask U.S. courts to see to it that they had a proceeding in which to challenge their detention. They have finished reviewing the status of 440 of the prisoners but have released only one.

The military also set up an annual administrative review which considers whether the detainee still presents a danger to the United States but doesn't review enemy combatant status. Administrative reviews have been completed for 161.

Boyle argued these procedures are sufficient to satisfy the high court and the detainee lawsuits should be thrown out.

Noting that detainees cannot have lawyers at the CSRT proceedings and cannot see any secret evidence against them, attorney Wes Powell argued "there is no meaningful opportunity in the CSRTs to rebut the government's claims."

Leon asked, however, "if the judiciary puts its nose into this, won't that lead us into reviewing decisions about who to target and even into the adequacy of information supporting the decision to seize a person?"

Leon said he thought an earlier Supreme Court ruling would limit judges to checking only on whether detention orders were lawfully issued and detention review panels were legally established.

Leon and Judge Joyce Hens Green, who held another hearing Wednesday on detainees' rights, said they will try to rule soon on whether the 59 detainees can proceed with their lawsuits.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,045 • Replies: 8
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2004 10:40 am
There was a time, and not all that long ago, when statements by the accused were not thought to be credible unless the accused had first been tortured or at least threatened with it. It took several hundred years in an incremental process to get to the assumption that evidence extracted by torture was not credible. We are now returning to the earlier assumption, and it will also be an incremental process. There was a time when I could produce an outraged screed on this and I am certain there are people on A2K that still can But not me any more (at least at the moment), I'm just too tired and disheartened.
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FreeDuck
 
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Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2004 11:02 am
I read this article this morning. All I could think was it's a slippery slope.
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JustWonders
 
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Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2004 03:28 pm
Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. Maybe they should just all be released. Say...to Chicago Smile
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FreeDuck
 
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Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2004 03:30 pm
Jeez, JW. You don't have a problem with torture? Would you have a problem with it being used on US citizens? How about using inside the US as part of law enforcement?
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JustWonders
 
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Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2004 03:38 pm
Read the article, Freeduck.
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FreeDuck
 
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Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2004 05:31 pm
I read an article about it this morning, JW. I know that they are talking about using torture induced evidence in military tribunals.

But it's the principal, is it not? That's why my questions were hypothetical.
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 10:35 am
Here's what I find most troublesome:
    U.S. District Judge Richard J. Leon asked if a detention would be illegal if it were based solely on evidence gathered by torture, because "torture is illegal. We all know that." Boyle replied that if the military's combatant status review tribunals (or CSRTs) "determine that evidence of questionable provenance were reliable, nothing in the due process clause (of the Constitution) prohibits them from relying on it."
The CSRTs are intended to determine if a prisoner is a "lawful combatant" or not. This is a crucial determination. Lawful combatants are entitled to the protections of the Geneva convention on the treatment of POWs ("Geneva III"), which includes protections against torture. Nonlawful combatants (or "enemy combatants" in the administration's typically clumsy nomenclature), on the other hand, are not protected under Geneva III, and so enjoy none of the rights granted therein.

In effect, then, the CSRTs determine who can and who cannot be tortured. But in making their determination, the CSRTs are permitted to rely upon evidence obtained through torture. In other words, to find out if prisoners are "torture-eligible," the government allows them to be tortured first. That's not logic, that's a clear case of bootstrapping, and it's sickening that the US would countenance this kind of Alice-in-Wonderland reasoning as national policy.
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Acquiunk
 
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Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 10:48 am
According to the Boston Globe on sunday. The US army plans to ID all males returning to Fallujah with DNA typing and retina scans, and assign them ID badges (which must be worn at all times) based on that Information. What we see with the "War of Terror" is the technology and thought process of a modern totalitarian state being explored and implemented. The ultimate "beneficiary" of all this will be ourselves. And it will all be for our own good (safety).
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