I want to believe but can't.

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I am a 30 year old father of three. I have struggled many years with my feelings toward religion. It would be much easier on me to just believe in God but I find it so hard. With three kids I always am asking myself if I am doing the right thing by not introducing them to religion, but on the other hand how can I teach them to believe in something I do not. Just today my son came home and said his teacher told him about the real meaning of Christmas. He told the class that Christmas was a celebration of the birth of Jesus and that most kids believe it is just about Santa and toys. Last year one of my daughters teachers asked for a show of hands for children that attended church and my daughter was the only one that didn't raise her hand. She said she was very embarrassed. As you can see it would be much easier to go through life believing in God. My problem is all of the unanswered questions. You can tell that the bible was written by man by the way it doesn't explain anything not know to man at that time. It doesn't explain about the universe because man did not know it existed. I have heard from many people on these boards that say how can you not believe that something as complicated as life was not created by God. Well I have to agree life is truly amazing and complex but the question I have is that if life is so complex then how come the explanation of our creation is so simple? Actually the whole creation of the earth seemed a bit simple. Basically it was God said let there be light, and bam there it was. Let there be darkness, and bam there it was. And if Adam and Eve were not flesh in the garden of Eden then how did he take the rib from Adam to create Eve, and why did he need it. Did he take one of his ribs to create Adam. I have asked these questions to my religious friends and all that I get back in return is that you just have to believe and that someday all of our questions will be answered. My grandparents are very religious and have attended church their whole life, so one day I decided to ask them a few questions to see if they could help me. The first one I asked was about Cain and Able. I asked who was Cane speaking of when he asked God what the people would do to him when they seen he had been marked. I said because at this point in the bible the only people that exist are Adam, Eve, and Cain. They both just stared blankly at me and changed the subject. They had no clue. This is how I believe that allot of Christians live there life, walking through life with blind faith. I could keep going on and on about the problems I have had trying to accept the existence of God but I would just bore you more than I already have. I will say it once again I wish I could believe. It would make my life and my families life easier. I do envy the people that can have full faith in God and never question but I cant. If anyone can help me cope with this I sure could use some help!

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Once you reason something away, it's gone.
So if you reasoned away your belief in god, it's gone.
If you never had it, then my only suggestion is try to reason away the rejection of god.
But from what I've seen it only works one way.

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I was not raised in a religious home but I attended a multitude of different churchs/temples/meetings with friends. This began when I was in about the fifth grade. My parents thought it was cool that I decided to explore.

I studied religions quite a bit in college and still explore different faiths and beliefs.

I appreciate that my parents did not force their beliefs or, lack of belief on me. They instead let me research and discover and form my own opinions.

I don't know how old your kids are but it might be time to let them start thinking about belief on their own without your input.

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I just feel that they would be attending for the wrong reasons. I believe that allot of churches preach fear instead of love. The times I have attended church in my life there seems to be allot of talk about how you will go to hell if you don't believe. I had a friend of mine tell me a story when he was trying to help me with my faith or lack there of. He had said that his pastor told him about a 12 year old girl that passed away that had not been saved. He said that the mother came to him and asked wether her little girl would be in Heaven, and he had to tell her no. Basically my instinct is to protect them and with my past experiences I have a hard time letting them attend church. My daughter asked me a few months ago if she could start attending church with her friend up the road. So I sit her down and asked why she would like to go. Her reply was that she thought it would be fun. To me I felt that was the wrong reason. If she had said she wanted to learn about God then I might have been more compelled to let her. I also feel that it was more about not having to tell anyone she didn't go to church. Or answer the questions about wether or not she believes in God. I know it may not sound like it but I really want to believe. I believe in everything that christianity stands for except for the existence of God. I know that sounds odd but I do believe in the way of life as a Christian as being that of pure good. I do believe that if I were a Christian that my family would benefit greatly from it. And it is these beliefs that has made me consider posing as a Christian for the benefit of my family, but I just cant. I am scared to death what I would do if I lost one of my children. I would love to belive that I would see them again one day but I cant. I have often wondered if these fears I have is more of the reasons people worship God rather than love for him. If people did not believe in God then they like me would have to think about the possibility of not being with their departed loved ones again. I have prayed to God many times for some sort of proof, something that could help me believe, but nothing. I fight this battle every day of my life and I just wish I could resolve it.

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I should say right off that I am not a Christian. I'm not an anything. Rest assured that I am not saying you should let your kids explore for any other reason that exploration is a great way to learn.

If you allow your daughter to go to church with her firend you know that you can temper what she hears there with your own thoughts. Make it a point to challenge what she is hearing. Make her think about it.

You might need to really educate yourself about the variety of thought. Even within the Christian religion there are huge differences in the way that the faith is observed.

For example, lately I have been thinking about attending a Quaker meeting to find out more about their version of Christianity. The more I read about them the more curious I am.

Also, they have recently built a Baha'i temple near my home. I'll probably visit there too.

Trust in your daughter. Help her understand that not everyone and not every Christian believes that an unsaved person is hellbound. You are obviously a concerned and alert parent. Let your daughter explore but continue to serve as her guide.

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Thankyou!
That is very good advice and I appreciate your wisdom. I am new to posting on forums but I must say that this has been very good for me to be able to understand why I am so confused. Thanks again for your very helpful advice!

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This is a tough one. I don't envy you...

We have had these discussions in A2K before. And I have found my temper gets the best of me on the subject of God. But its my opinion. I have found that I can't change others opinions on the subject..so I had stopped answering those post. But I find yours intriguing.

Let me see if I can find the words to express how I feel.

I believe the Bible is to be used as a "History Book" of our beginning. And a future reference.
Most don't believe in it, because there is no proof laid out for them to examine..except the Bible.

But I choose to believe.

To me, its the same as the History Books that we are taught in school.
They are laid out for us to examine...they are taught to us. And we believe what is taught in them, without question. Why?

Just like the Bible...or our past History.......we weren't around for those events. Just because we have pictures of past presidents...why do we believe? We have pictures of Jesus, but few choose to believe.

They say...the Bible is not proven.
Whose to say that our History books are. We have pictures of what Jesus is sopposed to look like. But we have pictures of what George Washington was sopposed to look like too. I wasn't around to see him, how do I know, why would I believe it? Same goes for the Bible.

People choose not to believe in the Bible or God, because they think it makes thier lives easier. Just because they have no proof laid out in front of thier eyes.....and choose to remain blind to him moving through thier lives....they choose not to believe.

I like to compare God to the Wind. You can't see it....but you can feel it, and you can hear it, if you learn not to ignore it.

Sooo..I have rattled here and probably not made one lick of sense..but I do hope that you let your daughter find her path...and let her believe as she chooses.

And I do agree with Boomerang...I don't believe that every person that is unsaved is hellbound. The thieves on the cross went to heaven....all they had to do is believe.

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traviscorn: Does your son go to a parochial school? If so, why? If not, why is the teacher asking religious questions of the children, especially those that ostrasize your son because he doesn't go to church. You need to protect you son from that teacher.

If you were reared in a home that practiced literal Christianity, then I can see that your identity is enmeshed with that teaching. That you have questions is healthy and means that you are on a spiritual quest and are not content to blindly accept what has been foisted on you.

Many millions of people have been in your position thinking that either they must accept the religious teachings in a literal way or reject them altogether. This is not the case. The third way is to radicalize your understanding. By radicalize, I mean dig down and find the underlying metaphorical meaning to these myths and symbols. I highly recommend a book by Joseph Campbell entitled "The Power of Myth." It's a transcription of a video of a dialogue by Campbell and Bill Moyers that was first presented on Public Television and is commonly repeated during pledge drives. Get the video if you can, and by all means get the book.

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traviscorn wrote:

I just feel that they would be attending for the wrong reasons. I believe that allot of churches preach fear instead of love. The times I have attended church in my life there seems to be allot of talk about how you will go to hell if you don't believe. I had a friend of mine tell me a story when he was trying to help me with my faith or lack there of. He had said that his pastor told him about a 12 year old girl that passed away that had not been saved. He said that the mother came to him and asked wether her little girl would be in Heaven, and he had to tell her no. Basically my instinct is to protect them and with my past experiences I have a hard time letting them attend church. My daughter asked me a few months ago if she could start attending church with her friend up the road. So I sit her down and asked why she would like to go. Her reply was that she thought it would be fun. To me I felt that was the wrong reason. If she had said she wanted to learn about God then I might have been more compelled to let her. I also feel that it was more about not having to tell anyone she didn't go to church. Or answer the questions about wether or not she believes in God. I know it may not sound like it but I really want to believe. I believe in everything that christianity stands for except for the existence of God. I know that sounds odd but I do believe in the way of life as a Christian as being that of pure good. I do believe that if I were a Christian that my family would benefit greatly from it. And it is these beliefs that has made me consider posing as a Christian for the benefit of my family, but I just cant. I am scared to death what I would do if I lost one of my children. I would love to belive that I would see them again one day but I cant. I have often wondered if these fears I have is more of the reasons people worship God rather than love for him. If people did not believe in God then they like me would have to think about the possibility of not being with their departed loved ones again. I have prayed to God many times for some sort of proof, something that could help me believe, but nothing. I fight this battle every day of my life and I just wish I could resolve it.

Don't pray for proof (one should never test God), pray instead that the Holy Spirit shall take up residence inside your heart and that the veils in front of your (spiritual) eyes shall be lifted. Do this persistently and with sincerity of heart and I'm convinced that you will ultimately experience the reality of God as so many others have done.

As for the old testament, it's absolutely not required that you believe in it literally. The Bible is after all not a history book, but a book for conveying spiritual and divine realities. You don't have to literally believe that Eve spoke to a snake, or that Jonah spent three days inside the belly of a big fish.

It is not through the intellect that one embraces God, but through the heart. When the light of God is inside of it, then much of that which previously seemed incomprehensible is seen in a new light, and actually makes full sense.

You say you believe in everything that Christianity stands for except for the existence of God. Do you then believe that Jesus was not the one he claimed that he was? That he was lying, and thus acted in disagreement with his own teachings? Or do you believe that the entire Bible is a fabrication made to fool people?

I believe that you know deep inside your heart that Jesus' teachings and his message of Love is indeed true. Try then also to believe that he was not a hypocritical liar, but actually was the one he said he was. Or if it's the possibility of the Bible being a fabrication that troubles you. Let's suppose that some benevolent people wanted to propagate truth and love, do you then believe they would be stupid enough to base everything on a lie? Or contrariwise, let's suppose it was made by people with evil intentions, would they then preach love and truth?

I wish you luck in your search for God and pray that you shall come to know him and love him as he loves you. And remember to pray a lot; the efficacy of sincere prayer cannot be overestimated.

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Ditto Derevon.

And let me supply a possible answer to the question your parents could not answer. As Derevon says, the Bible is not a history of mankind, but rather a documentary of God's dealings with man leading up to His final act of redemption through Christ. There is nothing in the Bible which states that at the time of Cain's murder of Abel there were only 4 people on earth. Those are the only four mentioned thru that point only because they were the only ones relavent to the message God was conveying. Who is to say that there were not a couple thousand people at that time?

I hope you will allow your daughter to attend church. As was said previously, you can talk to her about what she learns at church and give your views to her. But why stop her from gaining knowledge that she may or may not accept as gospel? Let her have the opportunity. And who knows, maybe a child will lead you to re-examine your reasons for doubting God's grace.

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traviscorn~

I believe in God.

Not because anyone told me to. Not because God appeared to me and
said "Here I am!" Not because it can be demonstrated or proved.

I cannot explain why I believe except to mention so many of the things
you may hear touted as "proofs" of the existence of God. The beauty
and complexity of the universe, my consciousness, my understanding.

None of these proves the existence of God, of course. But they all
contribute to my belief. The important thing to me is that it is my
belief and I have to deal with it in my own way. I won't reject my
belief because I have a problem with some theology or other. Theology
is just a struggle to organize thoughts about God. Anyone who has
struggled with that belief is a theologian. That includes you and me.

Sometimes I doubt. How can I not? But I always come back to
believing. Sometimes I believe simply because I choose to believe.

Be honest and truthful with yourself. And with your children. Tell
them what you believe about God and why. If, after a long and honest
examination of yourself, you still don't know what you believe, tell
them that.

Teach them about what people believe. Don't pretend you believe it
unless you do, but help them to understand that people honestly
believe this. Soon enough they will be old enough to wrestle with
these issues for themselves. Hep them to be prepared for it so that
when they decide, it will be an honest and informed decision.

~George

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I started thinking of traviscorn's thread today while reading Leonard Pitts' column in today's paper: http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/living/columnists/leonard_pitts/10326055.htm

It is interesting to me that Christianity (and many other religions) seem to be equated with intolerance these days.

There was also a short interview with the author of the new book about the apostle Paul (which sounds like a great read).

It seems to me that many Christians are becoming vocal about how fed up they are with the way their religion is being portrayed as a quasi-political organization.

Of course, there was also an article about the Methodist minister being defrocked for admitting to her lesbianism.

In many ways I understand the fears that traviscorn has for what his children may hear.

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Traviscorn, explore all options. Definitely not just Judeo-christian-islam religions. religion isnt for me, the people have previously posted display their own personal truths, not absolute ones. As for the wind analogies, we can see the effects of wind, and not of a god.

As for the Jesus contradicting himself if he wasnt telling the truth, maybe it was the truth for him? HE believed it so strongly that it wasnt a lie at all. I think his teachings are great, love thy neighbor, what a way to live. But making an organized religion around him, wasnt in his plans i dont think.

The teachings of Budhha are equally fascinating as are the taoists teachings. Dont limit yourself to an organized religion, and dont limit yourself to a belief in god (unless thats hat you want). Absorb all the teachings, explore all the options and decide for yourself what is right. Let your children do the same.

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"Believing" is second class living...and that is so whether you "believe" there is a God...or "believe" there are no gods.

Why on earth would you want to put a positive value on "believing?"

Much, much better to go with what you KNOW...rather than what you choose to "believe."

I supect that you KNOW that you don't know if there is a God or not.

Why not stick with that?

And why not suggest to your kids that sticking with that...might be in their best interests also.

You will be doing them a great service...and yourself also.

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Id have to agree with Frank, but investigate the teachings of different relgions. Take away the unceertain, and leave the certain.

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Etruscia wrote:

Id have to agree with Frank, but investigate the teachings of different relgions. Take away the unceertain, and leave the certain.

You are absolutely right, Etruscia...and I was neglegent in not adding a comment extolling the virtue of studying religions and philosophies...a thing that has fascinated me over the years.

Thanks for adding that on.

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Speaking from back here in second class, I find that is not enough for
me to simply acknowledge that I KNOW that I don't know and leave it at
that. Tried it. Didn't work for me. There is some illogical, emotional,
affective -- call it what you will -- element in me that leads me to belief.

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That is good for you, but does not offer any help for Travis.

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Travis and I both admit to having conflicts dealing with belief in God.
I'm trying trying to explain how and why I deal with mine. I hope he
would find it helpful to hear different points of view, different approches to
the problem.

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Quote:

And let me supply a possible answer to the question your parents could not answer. As Derevon says, the Bible is not a history of mankind, but rather a documentary of God's dealings with man leading up to His final act of redemption through Christ. There is nothing in the Bible which states that at the time of Cain's murder of Abel there were only 4 people on earth. Those are the only four mentioned thru that point only because they were the only ones relavent to the message God was conveying. Who is to say that there were not a couple thousand people at that time?

I don't understand. The bible mentioned Adam and Eve as God's first creations. It stated that Adam and Eve had two children Cain and Able. Where did everyone else come from?

Quote:

I hope you will allow your daughter to attend church. As was said previously, you can talk to her about what she learns at church and give your views to her. But why stop her from gaining knowledge that she may or may not accept as gospel? Let her have the opportunity. And who knows, maybe a child will lead you to re-examine your reasons for doubting God's grace.

The problem I have with allowing her to go to church is that in the times I have attended church a majority of what was taught was fear. They tell you if you are not saved you will go to hell when you die. They tell you that people who are not christian (like me) will go to hell when they die. I have no problem with her educating herself on any religion. The problem with Christianity I have found is that Church is not necessarily the place where she can get educated. I have went many times in a quest for knowledge and understanding and what I found was that more time was spent educating the congregation about financial needs of the church, singing, announcements, and prayer than education of the Gospel. To me churches are run more like businesses than a holy place anymore. How do I send my child somewhere that I feel this way about?

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I want to believe but can't.

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