In the mood for a fight? I am!

I understand your viewpoint.

At worst (for you) what I have said is absolutely correct, and you are wrong.

At best, you are right in thinking that I have asserted facts I have no authority to assert. But this case makes you a hypocrite (actually I guess you're a hypocrite in both cases). Because you assert facts all the time. You fact asserter.

Frank Apisa wrote:

I've never had a theists offer me any kind of reasonable evidence...

How do you know what you've been offered? Is your memory infallible?

Frank Apisa wrote:

Bin, here is the question as you first proposed it:

How do you know that's how I first proposed it? You sure there's not a super-cool hacker named Trinity or some baloney messing with you?

Frank Apisa wrote:

I did make a typo.

You sure nobody knows your password, and is just screwin with you?

(please, before you insult me, take care to notice that I didn't make ONE old joke when talking about remembering... and that's hard to do!)

If you think you're living a life without having beliefs, you've got another think coming. You fact asserter.

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binnyboy wrote:

I understand your viewpoint.

At worst (for you) what I have said is absolutely correct, and you are wrong.

At best, you are right in thinking that I have asserted facts I have no authority to assert. But this case makes you a hypocrite (actually I guess you're a hypocrite in both cases). Because you assert facts all the time. You fact asserter.

Frank Apisa wrote:
I've never had a theists offer me any kind of reasonable evidence...

How do you know what you've been offered? Is your memory infallible?

Frank Apisa wrote:
Bin, here is the question as you first proposed it:

How do you know that's how I first proposed it? You sure there's not a super-cool hacker named Trinity or some baloney messing with you?

Frank Apisa wrote:
I did make a typo.

You sure nobody knows your password, and is just screwin with you?

(please, before you insult me, take care to notice that I didn't make ONE old joke when talking about remembering... and that's hard to do!)

If you think you're living a life without having beliefs, you've got another think coming. You fact asserter.

Sounds like you are riding in a car with no doors, Bin.

When you have something worthwhile to say...do come back. And if you want to do "old" jokes...please do. I enjoy them.

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Can't...stop...laughing...."fact-asserter"..."old"..."no doors"...Hilarious.

Binny: There's a point after which "picking a fight" becomes ridiculous...I think we just crossed it. man, did I enjoy the trip, though.

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awwwwwww frank dont wanna play no more Smile

[under breath] dern agnostic fact asserter! That's an oxymoron if I ever heard one

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I think Frank's asleep, Binny. How on earth do you manage to be here at all hours of the day? It's insane!

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I have classes early in the damn morning but I am a night owl. Plus a2k is the last and first thing I do in a day Smile

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I'm more of a mid-morning and mid-afternoon person. Night is fun time, to me. Speaking of breakfast...talk to you later, Bin.

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[this is a really good time for a theist to jump in, since we ran off the crazy agnostic]

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binnyboy wrote:

awwwwwww frank dont wanna play no more

[under breath] dern agnostic fact asserter! That's an oxymoron if I ever heard one

I'm right here, Bin...waiting for you to respond to what I said with something other than "...well you are a hypocrite."

I have absolutely no idea of why you are charging me with hypocrisy...but I suspect it is because you have shot your load and see that it has come up very short.

But I will wait around.

By the way...I certainly don't mind someone like you flattering yourself by thinking YOU could run ME off.

Please do it often.

I love a good laugh.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

But I will wait around.

You could very well have died from old age the second after you sent this message, you fact asserter. You wouldn't have been waiting, then.

Frank Apisa wrote:

You are correct, BinI do not know that I do not have an invisible, incorporeal tail that fades in and out of corporeality every 90 years.

Like you, I would be wiling to guess that I do not.

Frank Apisa wrote:

I do [not] know if there is a Godor if there are no gods.

I do not see anywhere near enough unambiguous evidence upon which to make a reasonable, meaningful guess in either directionand because of that, I choose not to guess in either direction.

What makes you choose to guess you have no tail? What unambiguous evidence upon which to make a reasonable, meaningful guess in that direction do you have?

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binnyboy wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
But I will wait around.

You could very well have died from old age the second after you sent this message, you fact asserter. You wouldn't have been waiting, then.

Wellsince this is not the first remark of this sort from you, apparently you have some kind of wish that people who are older than you should die quickly...or that they should be mocked for having lived longer than you.

Sorry to disappoint youbut you really should clean that kind of stuff up.

It shows you for the immature individual you obviously are.

Besides which, I probably still get more at my age than you do at yours...and you should have some respect for my age on that account alone.

Quote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
You are correct, BinI do not know that I do not have an invisible, incorporeal tail that fades in and out of corporeality every 90 years.

Like you, I would be wiling to guess that I do not.

Frank Apisa wrote:
I do [not] know if there is a Godor if there are no gods.

I do not see anywhere near enough unambiguous evidence upon which to make a reasonable, meaningful guess in either directionand because of that, I choose not to guess in either direction.

What makes you choose to guess you have no tail?

Well, I can look and see if that I have no tail.

I assume you actually meant to write"What makes you choose to guess you have no invisible, incorporeal tail that fades in and out of corporeality every 90 years?"

I hope I am correct on thatand I do have enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base the guess that I am correct on that.

Quote:

What unambiguous evidence upon which to make a reasonable, meaningful guess in that direction do you have?

I'm sure you won't mind if I use the revised question when answering here, Bin.

The unambiguous evidence I have upon which I would base my guess is... that the very first time I ever heard such an absurd idea being proposedwas right here in this threadby you, a guy I could see was getting desperate to back up his atheistic guesswork with nonsense proposed as intellectual wherewithal.

I evaluated the evidence of whether or not this absurd out-of-the-blue batch of nonsense was actually a revelation of some sort or just childish prattleand came up with a guess that I think is justified.

Jeez, I woulda thunk a guy with your intellect would do the same thing.

And I might reiterate that I do not come up with enough evidence upon which to make a guess to the question of "What is the nature of REALITY?"

I do have a question for you, Bin.

Why do you suppose agnostics cannot state facts?

Are you of the hilariously misinformed impression that agnostics suppose there are no factsor that there is something wrong with asserting a factor that there is something wrong with making reasonable guesses?

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Frank Apisa wrote:

When you have something worthwhile to say...do come back. And if you want to

do "old" jokes...please do. I enjoy them.

Frank Apisa wrote:

binnyboy wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
But I will wait around.

You could very well have died from old age the second after you sent this message, you fact

asserter. You wouldn't have been waiting, then.

Wellsince this is not the first remark of this sort from you, apparently you have some kind of

wish that people who are older than you should die quickly...or that they should be mocked for

having lived longer than you.

Sorry to disappoint youbut you really should clean that kind of stuff up.

It shows you for the immature individual you obviously are.

Besides which, I probably still get more at my age than you do at yours...and you should have

some respect for my age on that account alone.

That's for those reading (ridiculously assuming there are any) who didn't catch the humor.

And more isnt necessarily better :wink:

Frank Apisa wrote:

I assume you actually meant to write"What makes you choose to guess you

have no invisible, incorporeal tail that fades in and out of corporeality every 90

years?"

I meant to write exactly what I wrote, because I knew you'd catch my meaning. Which you did.

Frank Apisa wrote:

The unambiguous evidence I have upon which I would base my guess is... that

the very first time I ever heard such an absurd idea being proposedwas right here in this

thread

you probably meant "this absurd idea rather than such an absurd idea":

Frank Apisa wrote:

Occasionally, when discussing this issue with people who assert there are no

godsI am confronted with scenarios like the one you presented with your "invisible corporeal

tail" question. One of my favorites was: Are there purple CPA's working on one of the moons of

Saturn?

but let's continue...

Frank Apisa wrote:

...was right here in this thread...by you, a guy I could see was getting

desperate to back up his atheistic guesswork with nonsense proposed as intellectual wherewithal.

I evaluated the evidence of whether or not this absurd out-of-the-blue batch of nonsense was

actually a revelation of some sort or just childish prattleand came up with a guess that I think

is justified.

So, let me see if I get this right. Is the following a correct description of what you think?

You don't have a tail is a guess you can make because I just then made it up; I do not claim it was revealed to me. If I did claim it was revealed to me (and you believed me)(or guessed that I was not intentionally lying, I guess I should say, since you don't BELIEVE anything), you might have to either come up with another reason to guess I am mistaken or, as you do with the gods case, refuse to draw a conclusion about whether I am mistaken (or agree with me which would not happen).
There is not a god is a guess that you cannot make because some people claim that there is a god and they seriously claim that they have had a revelation of this.

Is this an accurate conclusion? (I am trying very hard to say something in the spirit of your thoughts.)

Quote:

And I might reiterate that I do not come up with enough evidence upon which to make a guess to the question of "What is the nature of REALITY?"

Quote:

Are you of the hilariously misinformed impression that agnostics suppose there are no factsor that there is something wrong with asserting a factor that there is something wrong with making reasonable guesses?

Quote:

My contention, as I have mentioned several timesdeals with you asserting that you know which is the fact.

Your contention is that I am asserting a fact that I'm not sure of. My contention is that you constantly assert facts you could be wrong about. But you are right to call them facts. Just as I did:

binnyboy wrote:

So I say that there is no god. I say it as a fact. I am not sure it is true. But it is a fact. Just as I say I have no invisible incorporeal tail. I am not sure that is true either. But it is a fact.

I have used several examples in the past few posts to show how your "facts" could be just mistaken opinions. You're not sure (and if you are that's an equally big problem), and yet you call these BELIEFS facts. And you're right to do so. And so am I. Hope that answers your question. You fact asserter.

Frank Apisa wrote:

And I might reiterate that I do not come up with enough evidence upon which to make a guess to the question of "What is the nature of REALITY?"

fact (fakt) n. 1. Something known with certainty. 2. Something asserted as certain. 3. Something that has been objectively verified. 4. Something having real, demonstratable existence.
Definition 5 is the def. of fact in regard to law.
Source: Reader's Digest Illustrated Encyclopedic Dictionary

Sounds to me that any time you assert a fact, you are making a guess (and asserting it as fact) to the question of "What is the nature of REALITY?" You fact asserter.

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sorry the quotes are messed up a little... notepad did it!

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binnyboy wrote:

sorry the quotes are messed up a little... notepad did it!

The fact that the quotes are messed up is of no consequences. The fact[/] that your thinking is messed up...is.

I'll respond to a bit of the hodgepodge you posted up above in a bit...but I feel almost like a bully doing so.

You showed some promise in the beginning...even looked like a worthy opponent...but you really petered out quickly...and damn near completely.

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Quote:

You showed some promise in the beginning...even looked like a worthy opponent...but you really petered out quickly...and damn near completely.

Funny...very funny....continue, this still is very amusing...

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Binnyboy wrote:

Quote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
I assume you actually meant to write"What makes you choose to guess you

have no invisible, incorporeal tail that fades in and out of corporeality every 90

years?"

I meant to write exactly what I wrote, because I knew you'd catch my meaning. Which you did.

I think this says just about everything that has to be said about Binny...and whether or not he is a worthy opponent.

Here Binny had several choices:

He simply could have avoided any mention of this particular issue by ignoring the matter I called to his attention...

...or he could have taken the honorable, honest, and ethical step of acknowledging that his phraseology was poor...and that he had, indeed, meant to write "What makes you choose to guess you have no invisible incorporeal tail."

To write the sentence as he did (What makes you choose to guess you have no tail?" would, of course, open it up to a reply of "Well, I can look and see if that I have no tail."

That obviously was not what he wanted...and just as obviously, he screwed up by writing the words he did.

Acknowledging that he had made a minor error would be no big thing at all.

But instead of these two possible ways of dealing with it...Binny decided to take the least honorable, least ethical, least honest, least logical, least reasonable out...

...and pretended that he actually meant to write the sentence exactly the way he didusing the wrong wording

because

...he knew I would catch his meaning!!!!!

There is no use debating with Binny.

He is not interested in reasonable, ethical debate.

He apparently is not mature enough to own up even to minor mistakes in reasoning or logic...so to hope that he would see and acknowledge reasonable and intelligent rebuttals to his trite theses is naive.

Note to Binny personally:

Bin, grow up a bit before playing with adults.

You have the opportunity right now to do so.

Let's see some evidence, in however you reply, that you can handle adulthood.

Then maybe I will respect you enough to continue our little discussion here.

By the way...I hope you have no more tests scheduled for a bit. Considering what you said earlier, I want to be sure you don't think about this issue while studying. I certainly would not want to be part of anything that sets you "off course" in school. Keep this Internet activity in perspective. It is mostly just fun and games.

I encourage all kids to take school as seriously as possible.

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furiousflee wrote:

Quote:
You showed some promise in the beginning...even looked like a worthy opponent...but you really petered out quickly...and damn near completely.

Funny...very funny....continue, this still is very amusing...

Oh...it gets better.

Don't go away.

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Then don't argue with him...the entire point of this thread is pointless, to fight just because is primitive and even ape like....so why fight at all if there is no real point and no real gain?

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Frank the smile of mental jijutsu(I don't know how to spell this) is very inspirational...I am still glued..

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Quote:

You showed some promise in the beginning...even looked like a worthy opponent...but you really petered out quickly...and damn near completely.

Bluster neither proves nor strengthens the force of one's argument ... if anything, it detracts from it.

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In the mood for a fight? I am!

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