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Blair defeated over hunt ban compromise

 
 
Reply Wed 17 Nov, 2004 02:09 am
Quote:
Blair defeated over hunt ban compromise
By Colin Brown and Ben Russell
17 November 2004


Tony Blair suffered a humiliating defeat over fox hunting last night as Labour backbenchers overwhelmingly rejected his last-ditch attempts at a compromise and forced through an outright ban.

The vote means all hunting will be banned, possibly as soon as February, after MPs voted 321 to 204, a majority of 117, to reject proposals backed by Mr Blair for limited hunting to be permitted under strict licensing.

Mr Blair made a rare appearance in the division lobbies to support the compromise, but won the support of twenty-two colleagues, included Hilary Armstrong, the Chief Whip, David Blunkett, the Home Secretary, Dr John Reid, the Health Secretary, and Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary.

MPs also voted by a large margin to reject licensing proposals from the House of Lords, which would have also allowed stag hunting and hare coursing to continue.

Anti-hunt MPs cheered in the packed chamber last night as the final vote was announced following a highly charged debate. "Tally ho!" called one MP as the vote was declared. Security was tight outside. About 30 pro-hunt protesters locked themselves to railingsas MPs began their debate.

The late-night vote came three hours later, prompting a highly unusual constitutional clash between MPs and peers over the Hunting Bill which heads back to the Lords today.

Peers are expected to reject plans for the outright ban which is likely to trigger a move by the Speaker of the Commons, Michael Martin, to force through the legislation with the little-used Parliament Act. In theory, peers could make a fresh attempt to amend the Bill today but in practice many accept that they have little choice but to accept that the Parliament Act will be invoked for only the fourth time in its 55-year history.

The Countryside Alliance vowed yesterday to challenge an outright ban in the courts, while the Conservatives said they would repeal a ban if they were returned to power.

Senior ministers said Mr Blair was secretly hoping that hunt campaigners would overturn a ban in the courts and prevent a bitter row over country sports souring next year's general-election campaign. A senior Cabinet member told The Independent that legislation to impose an outright ban on hunting as soon as February would be "wide open" to legal challenge.

The amendments, moved by the Labour backbencher Huw Irranca-Davies, were greeted with anger by anti-hunt MPs during the debate. The member for Ogmore, in south Wales, compared his attempt to win round anti-hunt MPs to the charge of the light brigade.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Nov, 2004 06:12 am
HOORAY FOR THE LABOUR BACKBENCHERS!

At last, at last! ... an end to this barbarous "sport"! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Nov, 2004 06:16 am
and about time too. They promised this years ago



H O O R A Y ! ! ! !
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Nov, 2004 06:20 am
Yes, Vivian! YAY!

About time this abhorrent cruelty was stopped!
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Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 02:52 am
a rocky ride ahead as these 'nice' people will start putting hounds and horses down and claiming it is all the fault of the government and court cases and so on but ......

YAY - it is banned from next February!

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 06:36 am
They wouldn't do that, would they, Vivien? (put down hounds & horses? Shocked ) What sort of people ARE these? First, they get pleasure from hounding foxes to their death in the name of sport, and then this? They sound downright barbaric!!! Ughhhhhhh! Revolting! Evil or Very Mad
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Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 01:49 pm
yes, this is one their arguements - that stopping hunting would mean the death of lots of horses and hounds - in other words if they can't kill things they won't bother riding??????

the hounds wouldn't be suitable as pets as they've been kept in kennels together, living as pack animals, untrained other than to kill - so I think that they are likely to be put down Sad

at one protest before the vote some hunt supporter (on TV news) apparently had a dead horse on a pole with a placard saying there would be many more if hunting were banned - sick??? Shocked

they will definitely go out of their way to shock and make a point so I really think it is likely.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 02:01 pm
Btw: they do foxhunting here in Germany, too, (especially now, and in my region), but not really "hunting" but chasing an "artifical" fox.

From The Times:

Quote:
Today at least half a million people are either directly or indirectly involved in the 350 hunts across the country. At least 1,000 are employed directly by hunts and the industry is worth £14.9 million a year. Up to 8,000 people could lose their jobs and up to 25,000 hounds may be put down.


382 is the number of those "German-style" foxhunts, published on a private website (so there might be a lot more: none of those 20 in our county is mentioned :wink: ).
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 02:02 pm
Good grief. Hounds are not killing dogs. If they are truly portraying it this way, they are simply lying.
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 02:04 pm
That's an interesting argument those folks are making, Vivien: Let us have our way or we'll slaughter our animals!

(There's a pro-gun guy who I would've thought would be all over this thread...)
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 02:08 pm
D'artagnan wrote:
That's an interesting argument those folks are making, Vivien: Let us have our way or we'll slaughter our animals!

(There's a pro-gun guy who I would've thought would be all over this thread...)


They won't do such with the 1,000 or 8,000 people mentioned in the Time article, I hope. (Otherwise, if it is the same pro-gunguy, I think of, he could even consider such Evil or Very Mad )
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 02:09 pm
Who me? This is of course a bunch of urbanites trying to tell the country folks how to live. It ain't gonna work...
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 02:18 pm
cjhsa wrote:
Who me? This is of course a bunch of urbanites trying to tell the country folks how to live. It ain't gonna work...


Quote:
Farm group calls for action on foxhunting
09/11/2004 - 10:25:10

A group of farmers has demanded the Government crack down on foxhunting because it is damaging their livelihoods.

Farmers against Foxhunting and Trespass said those involved in hunts were trampling on the constitutional rights of farmers by trespassing on their land and causing thousands of euro worth of damage.

The group's secretary, William O'Donoghue, said: "It has happened to me on a number of occasions. I had wire fences cut, fences broken down.

"I haven't been the worst, personally, [but] I have had people contact me who had thousands of pounds worth of damage caused to their property."



<Lupus in fabula>
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 02:37 pm
Trespassing is not a good thing, and unethical on the part of the hunters who do so, at least intentionally.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 02:43 pm
The 'country folk' who hunt in Britain aren't the Michigan Militia type, cjhsa. It's a bit too expensive a proposition for real country folk to get involved in.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 02:43 pm
I actually didn't want to argue about "The Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000" here, but responded to your

cjhsa wrote:
This is of course a bunch of urbanites trying to tell the country folks how to live. It ain't gonna work...
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 02:45 pm
For the record, I am not part of any militia!

I might be considered one myself, but that's about it! Very Happy
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 03:36 pm
According to the BBC, pro-hunting groups have threatened widespread acts of civil disobedience "with full knowledge that these would result in arrest." Such actions may include deny access to land for military training, which would have a disproportionately large affect, as most pro-hunting individuals are also large land holders. Other options include denying British Waterways access to rivers and streams on private land, a move which British Waterways admits could create "considerable difficulties", and denying electrical companies the right to erect pylons (support poles) on private land, which has been tradtionally done through voluntary consent of landowners.
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 03:40 pm
My gosh! They plan to shut down the country if they don't get their way! Traditions die hard in Britain.

I'm afraid to find out what the smokers threaten to do once the tobacco ban goes into effect...
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Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 05:10 am
ehBeth wrote:
Good grief. Hounds are not killing dogs. If they are truly portraying it this way, they are simply lying.



they are brought up from puppies in a kennel, the only human contact is feeding and hunting - they aren't pets, they are kept hungry before a hunt to encourage them to chase and kill, the minute they are ill or injured they are shot, they are not pampered or loved or looked after in the way our pets, thered is no retirement are having lived like that could not be turned into a pet - they would chase and kill any small animal and would not be house trained or affectionate pets.

the pack frequently kill peoples small dogs and cats

sad but true - it isn't the breed that is bad but the way they have been trained and used Sad
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