0
   

yet vs and yet

 
 
Reply Wed 31 May, 2017 03:02 pm
i knew shoplifting was bad, yet I did it all the same.
I knew shoplifting was bad, and yet I did it all the same.

Are this both acceptable constructions? Without context, which do you prefer?

Thanks.
 
centrox
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 May, 2017 03:40 pm
In this case, just 'yet'. When 'yet' is used as a conjunction, 'and yet' is redundant, and the 'and' could usually be cut. For example, 'and' serves no purpose in this sentence:

The numbers do offer a sobering picture, and yet it’s far from all gloom and doom.

However, I would use 'and yet' at the start of a sentence followed by a comma and meaning, “That may be so, but…”

Ms. Hill, a 50-year-old voice-over actress, said she had been feeling a spiritual drift away from Christmas for several years. And yet, each December she continued to go through the motions of sending out holiday cards, decorating the house, buying gifts.

perennialloner
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 May, 2017 06:42 pm
@centrox,
Thank you for your response.

Why couldn't the meaning of "and yet" be "that may be so, but..." in your first example?

I guess I don't see why it's redundant in your first example but not your second.
centrox
 
  0  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2017 12:44 am
@perennialloner,
perennialloner wrote:

Thank you for your response.

Why couldn't the meaning of "and yet" be "that may be so, but..." in your first example?

I guess I don't see why it's redundant in your first example but not your second.

Note what I said about using 'and yet' at the start of a sentence.
0 Replies
 
centrox
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2017 11:50 am
OK use yet or and yet as you please.
perennialloner
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2017 12:05 pm
@centrox,
I didnt downvote you if that's why you replied again. I understand what you said. I just feel like your preference is simply stylistic - for flow. And if that's the case, I think and yet could be chosen instead of yet in the middle of the sentence for the same reason.

My final conclusion is there is no important difference.
camlok
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2017 12:48 pm
@centrox,
Quote:
OK use yet or and yet as you please.


Finally, some good advice.

Why didn't you simply tell him you had offered up a bunch of bafflegab, Centrox?
0 Replies
 
centrox
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2017 12:50 pm
@perennialloner,
perennialloner wrote:
I didnt downvote you if that's why you replied again.

I replied again because I don't think my earlier replies were very good or accurate. I think you are right about my preference being simply stylistic.
camlok
 
  0  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2017 12:55 pm
@perennialloner,
Quote:
i knew shoplifting was bad, yet I did it all the same.
I knew shoplifting was bad, and yet I did it all the same.

Are this both acceptable constructions? Without context, which do you prefer?


Yes. Can't say because context is everything.

Is this the same?

I knew shoplifting was bad, annnnnd yet I did it all the same.

It is NOT redundant. But you, supposedly the learner, already knew this, while Centrox, the teacher, did not.

I am not being unkind to anyone but asking these folks these types of questions about a language they all know but know nothing about is pretty much futile for a person with your level of English.

As you can see, the "teacher" wasn't willing to operate as an equal, having a discussion on language. As soon as he realized how out to lunch he was, what did he do?
camlok
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2017 01:00 pm
@centrox,
Quote:
In this case, just 'yet'. When 'yet' is used as a conjunction, 'and yet' is redundant, and the 'and' could usually be cut. For example, 'and' serves no purpose in this sentence:

The numbers do offer a sobering picture, and yet it’s far from all gloom and doom.


Can you not see the inherent contradiction in what you wrote, Centrox? The part I bolded and increased in size to help you.

It doesn't serve "no purpose" in your example sentence except for the blinkered vision you have envisioned.
perennialloner
 
  2  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2017 01:07 pm
@camlok,
He was just offering his opinion.

I think my questions are bad sometimes because i have a curiosity and ask about it but don't think about the best way to ask my question.

Another thing to add to this question

Yet
and yet
but yet (?) Im not sure it's a thing
but still
and still

To me, these all mean the same thing. Im curious if there are instances where they don't mean the same thing. We've established that yet and and yet are both acceptable but what about "and still" and "but still". I can't really distinguish them from each other. Could either of you or anyone else offer examples showing their difference in meaning if such a difference exists?

perennialloner
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2017 01:11 pm
@camlok,
Does blinkered mean blind? I looked on Google but there wasn't much by way of definition.
camlok
 
  0  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2017 01:13 pm
@perennialloner,
This will tell you, or really, actually show you. Context is everything.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=blinkers+for+horses&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjh_76frZ3UAhVB1RQKHdhrBycQ_AUICigB&biw=1280&bih=635
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2017 01:20 pm
@perennialloner,
No, an opinion means he would say something like, "Let me rethink this. Perhaps I was too hasty." Or the like.
===============

Quote:
Yet
and yet
but yet (?) Im not sure it's a thing
but still
and still

To me, these all mean the same thing. Im curious if there are instances where they don't mean the same thing. We've established that yet and and yet are both acceptable but what about "and still" and "but still". I can't really distinguish them from each other. Could either of you or anyone else offer examples showing their difference in meaning if such a difference exists?


Yes, just as there differences, illustrated, for yet/and yet, there are differences for these.

Writing/the written word is not nearly as expressive as the spoken language. You know this because you speak at least two languages.

Put the ones where you can't really distinguish them from each other into you example sentence and my example sentence. Of course, being that it is all just written it won't illustrate what you would see in a second if we were face to face.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2017 01:28 pm
@perennialloner,
perennialloner wrote:

i knew shoplifting was bad, yet I did it all the same.
I knew shoplifting was bad, and yet I did it all the same.

Are this both acceptable constructions? Without context, which do you prefer?

Thanks.


They're both acceptable. Usually, I prefer conciseness, but in this case the second sentence sounds better. "And yet" serves to emphasize the irony of the situation, where "and" or "yet" alone would not.
camlok
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2017 01:37 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
Usually, I prefer conciseness,


Please, and I don't mean to be snotty, InfraBlue, but that is such useless information/drivel. It's another of those pieces of information offered up by a Strunk or a White, a William Safire, a Richard Lederer.

Most everybody always prefers conciseness. In fact, parents often hate it when kids are very concise in their language.

"They're both acceptable."

Drop 'both'. [They're] describes them both.

Darn, now I've gone and used 'both' with 'them'!! Arrrrggghhh!
camlok
 
  0  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2017 01:39 pm
Did you vote the thread down as you huffily stomped out, Centrox?
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  0  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2017 03:51 pm
@camlok,
camlok wrote:

Quote:
Usually, I prefer conciseness,


Please, and I don't mean to be snotty, InfraBlue, but that is such useless information/drivel. It's another of those pieces of information offered up by a Strunk or a White, a William Safire, a Richard Lederer.

Most everybody always prefers conciseness. In fact, parents often hate it when kids are very concise in their language.

So, your objection is that preference for conciseness goes without saying because everybody does?

camlok wrote:
"They're both acceptable."

Drop 'both'. [They're] describes them both.

Darn, now I've gone and used 'both' with 'them'!! Arrrrggghhh!

Sure, if it's for the sake of clarity be wordy and use both.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2017 03:57 pm
@centrox,
centrox wrote:

Signature
Gus Fring: hero, inspiration and role model.

Heh, I just saw this. Are you watching Better Call Saul? My wife and I can't get enough of it.
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2017 04:02 pm
@centrox,
Applauds Centrox's honesty.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
  1. Forums
  2. » yet vs and yet
Copyright © 2019 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 03/26/2019 at 06:33:07