15
   

Where is Jeff Sessions?

 
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2018 12:17 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Wrong in two ways.
No. The Constitution really does give the President absolute power to give orders to the executive branch, and absolute power to fire them for any reason.

Blickers wrote:
First way-the Constitution says senior officials must be confirmed by the Senate.
That doesn't diminish the President's power to fire people.

Blickers wrote:
Whittaker didn't do that. Therefore, Whitaker is not the Attorney General, regardless of what Trump tweets.
I haven't really looked into the arguments about Whitaker. However, I believe I heard some experts say that the Democrats' position is implausible at best.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2018 12:22 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
HEs laning on the "Appointment clause" of A2, sec 2, when its not mentioned there, Special prosecutors (counsel) are listed under the CFR.
It doesn't matter where they are listed. If they are part of the federal executive branch, the Constitution gives the President absolute power to give them orders and to fire them for any reason (or even for no reason).

farmerman wrote:
the CFR has been adjuged as Constitutionally valid, but these issues as you brought up are the FACTS that Plump has yet to learn, despite all his hot shot atty's.
I'm sure Trump is well aware of his Constitutional powers.

farmerman wrote:
AND the issue of special counsels is NOWHERE in the Constitution,
That is incorrect. The Constitution provides rules governing the entire executive branch.

farmerman wrote:
Trump (and Oralloy) are just creating something that aint there.
That is incorrect. The Constitution really does give the President absolute power to fire members of the executive branch for any reason.

farmerman wrote:
ITS the entire reason that Plump wants to get this done NOW, by strangling off the exec offices that he does have powers under Constitutional reference.
I'm pretty sure that the reason why he wants it done now is because he is tired of the Democrats' witch hunts.

farmerman wrote:
He wants to get it done before the nxt Congress makes it virtually impossible
The next Congress will have no say over who the President can or can't fire.

farmerman wrote:
and hes panicking that his family is gonna be indicted.
You are imagining this panic. In addition to his absolute power to fire Mueller for any reason, he also has the absolute power to pardon his family.

farmerman wrote:
However despite all the error laden beliefs of the president,
No errors on Trump's part. He really does have absolute power to give orders to the executive branch, and absolute power to fire them.

farmerman wrote:
In all cases, the Congress reatains the final word.
No. The Constitution puts control over the executive branch in the hands of the President.

farmerman wrote:
Problem is, some of these fringe newsletters and papers MAKE **** UP (as our great president Obama said recently in a stump speech)
It seems to be the mainstream outlets that are making things up these days.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2018 12:23 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
This is all based on Trump's actions via Exec Order from this past July (the one that removed the requirements under agencies for law judges). That one (It was Wxec Order 13843) has been laid on the table and will have to be somehow Adjuticated to TEST whether its even constitutional. (All presidents do this and this is but the first which Trump hs fucked with the CFR)
No. Trump's power to unilaterally rewrite the CFR comes from the Constitution.
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2018 01:05 pm
@oralloy,
Nope. Federal agencies are delegated authority, through legislation, jointly by the Executive and Legislative branches.

The Executive branch cannot unilaterally modify the terms of the delegation.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2018 01:28 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:
Nope.
The Constitution says otherwise.

DrewDad wrote:
Federal agencies are delegated authority, through legislation, jointly by the Executive and Legislative branches.
That does not change the fact that the President has the power to unilaterally rewrite the CFR.

He would of course have to comply with all (constitutional) laws when rewriting the CFR.

Luckily there are currently no laws forbidding the President from completely abolishing the entire Office of the Independent Council or otherwise modifying it as he sees fit.

DrewDad wrote:
The Executive branch cannot unilaterally modify the terms of the delegation.
They can't unilaterally rewrite any statutes. But they can unilaterally rewrite the CFR so long as the new version still complies with all the statutes.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2018 05:08 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
the President has the power to unilaterally rewrite the CFR
Thats bullshit because Trump only signed EO 13843, this past summer AND itll take sevral yars before a case comes up to even try it. Or else the next president in 2020 relieves us of 13843.
PS could you please quote or cite the section in the constitution that deals with specil counsel?
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2018 05:32 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Thats bullshit because Trump only signed EO 13843, this past summer AND itll take sevral yars before a case comes up to even try it.
The Constitution says otherwise.

farmerman wrote:
PS could you please quote or cite the section in the constitution that deals with specil counsel?
Article II. Section 1. The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2018 05:59 pm
@oralloy,
oh geez. now go find the actual citations about Special counsel. Hint: its in the CFR that I cited earlier an you denied (probably cause you didnt read it) right?.
ExecOrder 13843 has three major hits to th CFR an, if the president alrwady has CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY, why then would ya think he dropped a bomb on the CFR??? See that would split up his case by his admission that sec II maybe aint gonna support him . AND, as a number of us said, CONGRESS has a major role in his "hire and fire" dreams.

We have a president who is fairly light in that his posse seems to lak deep knowledge of constitutional law.
13843 is apparently the FIRST time anyone has trid to shut down th CFR. Ive been reading several papers of woe from constitutional lawyers and scholars who are seeing large paydays ahead as this whole thing waddles its way to the USSC (and probably gets annulled by the next resident)

oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2018 06:49 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
oh geez. now go find the actual citations about Special counsel. Hint: its in the CFR that I cited earlier an you denied (probably cause you didnt read it) right?.
If you can point out something that says what you claim, I will read it.

farmerman wrote:
ExecOrder 13843 has three major hits to th CFR an, if the president alrwady has CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY, why then would ya think he dropped a bomb on the CFR??? See that would split up his case by his admission that sec II maybe aint gonna support him.
The Constitution does support him.

farmerman wrote:
AND, as a number of us said, CONGRESS has a major role in his "hire and fire" dreams.
People who make such claims are wrong.

Well, Congress has some say in the hiring. But not in the firing.

farmerman wrote:
We have a president who is fairly light in that his posse seems to lak deep knowledge of constitutional law.
No. It's his critics who don't know what they are talking about.

farmerman wrote:
Ive been reading several papers of woe from constitutional lawyers and scholars who are seeing large paydays ahead as this whole thing waddles its way to the USSC (and probably gets annulled by the next resident)
You are forgetting that the Republicans are going to hold the White House for 20 years.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2018 07:15 pm
@oralloy,
I already did. This was only yesterday. You said you ither didnt read it or didnt find it. Are you familiar with the Legal Sidebar of the Congressional Research Service?? CLICK CLICK
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2018 07:20 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
You are forgetting that the Republicans are going to hold the White House for 20 years.
so now youve limited it to just the white house. I believe last year you posted that the entire govt would be held by GOP for 20 years. Was tht continuously or in fits n starts??

m getting such a new sense of marketing feedback from spinmeisters from Wed through today. What will tomorrow bring. I hope the Dems can learn the lesson about the voters .
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2018 08:00 pm
@farmerman,
My prediction has been consistently about the White House from the first time I made it in February 2016.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2018 08:01 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
I already did. This was only yesterday. You said you ither didnt read it or didnt find it. Are you familiar with the Legal Sidebar of the Congressional Research Service?? CLICK CLICK
That page doesn't load for me.

But it appears to be a root-level link and not a link to specific text about anything.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2018 09:51 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
My prediction has been consistently about the White House from the first time I made it in February 2016.


February 14, 2016
http://able2know.org/topic/309762-5#post-6125874
oralloy wrote:
It's going to be worse for the Democrats than for the Republicans. Trump is going to reshape the Republican Party to fit his views, but I'm upping my electoral predictions now to say that the Republicans are guaranteed to win the next five presidential elections.


February 16, 2016
http://able2know.org/topic/306611-8#post-6127252
oralloy wrote:
It'll be Trump. Trump in 2020 as well.

2024, 2028, and 2032 will also see Republicans elected president.


February 17, 2016
http://able2know.org/topic/306611-9#post-6128045
oralloy wrote:
I'm reminded of Asimov's Foundation trilogy, at the points when the remnant of an old order that is about to be swept away is still acting like they have a future.

Poignant.

Oh well. Let's get on with the future.


March 3, 2016
http://able2know.org/topic/306611-10#post-6137980
oralloy wrote:
Hawkeye saw Trump coming long before the first votes were cast.

I didn't see it until the New Hampshire primary results were announced, but have consistently predicted ever since that point that Mr. Trump is going to smash the Democrats so hard that they will be out of the White House for a good 20 years.


March 3, 2016
http://able2know.org/topic/306611-10#post-6137982
oralloy wrote:
The right are about to shut the Democrats out of the White House for 20 straight years.

There are some old school Reaganites who don't like how Mr. Trump is going to reshape the Republican Party, but once the Democrats have been electorally obliterated I suspect most conservatives will come around to liking Mr. Trump a lot more.


March 6, 2016
http://able2know.org/topic/164543-156#post-6139510
oralloy wrote:
It's too late. There was only one shot at defeating Mr. Trump, and that was getting behind Mr. Rubio from New Hampshire on.

All this panic from the establishment at this point is just closing the barn door after the horses have already escaped (is that how the saying goes?), and is just doing pointless damage to the party.

Mr. Trump is going to be our next president, and as such he will have the power to reshape the Republican Party to fit his values. The Right might want to start dealing with that, because it's going to happen whether they like it or not.

It'll be much worse for the Left. They are going to be out of power for a good 20 years.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  4  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2018 10:47 pm
@oralloy,
Quote Blickers:
Quote:
First way [Whitaker cannot be Attorney General]-the Constitution says senior officials must be confirmed by the Senate.

Whittaker didn't do that. Therefore, Whitaker is not the Attorney General, regardless of what Trump tweets.


Quote oralloy:
Quote:
That doesn't diminish the President's power to fire people.
The president's ability to fire Sessions is limited for a reason I will describe later. However, even granting for the sake of argument that Trump can fire Sessions this way, he still can't appoint Whitaker, even temporarily, as Attorney General because the Constitution says senior officials must be confirmed by the Senate. That is why Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein had to get confirmed by the Senate before he could even be appointed to Deputy Attorney General, let alone actual Attorney General-because the Deputy Attorney General must be ready to take over in case of emergency. He can't do that if the Senate hasn't confirmed him. Source: Dep't of Justice website.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2018 03:11 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
The president's ability to fire Sessions is limited for a reason I will describe later.
The Constitution says that his power to do so is absolute.

Blickers wrote:
However, even granting for the sake of argument that Trump can fire Sessions this way, he still can't appoint Whitaker, even temporarily, as Attorney General because the Constitution says senior officials must be confirmed by the Senate. That is why Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein had to get confirmed by the Senate before he could even be appointed to Deputy Attorney General, let alone actual Attorney General-because the Deputy Attorney General must be ready to take over in case of emergency. He can't do that if the Senate hasn't confirmed him. Source: Dep't of Justice website.
I confess that I haven't taken much interest in the Whitaker kerfuffle, so I am not qualified to offer an opinion.
Blickers
 
  4  
Reply Mon 12 Nov, 2018 02:23 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
I confess that I haven't taken much interest in the Whitaker kerfuffle, so I am not qualified to offer an opinion.

Fair enough. But the problem is, Trump has decided that Whitaker is the one overseeing the Mueller probe, and constitutionally, Whitaker isn't. So Mueller isn't bound by anything Whitaker says at all.
0 Replies
 
 

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