Hi Isha
Just a few remarks:
Quote:Jesus also said that He came to abolish the law
This is just an insult to our intelligence:
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [Matthew 5:17-19]
Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. [Matthew 23:1-3]
So according to Jesus, he told his followers to follow His commands in the OT.
Quote:hmmm....christians are not ordered to kill, kill, kill...lest u forget that Jesus said "love your enemies"...."forgive if u want to be forgiven",
These teachings are non sense and against the human nature.
And the funny part is that Jesus was the first to reject his own teachings of love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you:
Judas was the enemy of Jesus, but instead of loving him and pray for him, he just cursed him:
The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born. [Mark 14:21]
Jews were the enemies of Jesus, but instead of loving them and praying for them he just insult them when calling them "Fools", "Vipers", "Snakes", "Wicked"....
Just look at Luke parable in chapter 19 against the Jews:
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
Jesus is considered the king of ANTI-SEMITISM.
Why did Jesus refuse to heal the Canaanite daughter in Mathew 15? Isn't this woman supposed to be his enemy? He jus healed her when she had believed in him.
Jesus condemned entire cities to death and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching [Matthew 11:20]
Killing children that curse their parents [Matthew 15:4-7]
(What about "pray for those who persecute you")
Jesus ordered not to associate with non-Christians, and not to receive them into our house or even exchange greeting with [2 John 10]
For God sake, can someone just explain what is meant by "enemy" in Jesus vocabulary?
Quote:If Christians were ordered to kill, kill, kill, then you wouldn't see Christians traveling all over the world not only to bring the gospel to people that have never heard of it, but also to deliver aid to the poor, the sick, when there are disasters..etc..etc....regardless of the people's religion.
I told you b4, Jews, Christians and Muslims do not follow their holy books.
Quote:The number one humanitarians are Christians. You don't see Muslims, Jews, Atheists, Wiccans, Buddihsts, Hindus..etc..going to third world countries, or jungles to help bring medicines, build homes, teach women how to be independent, build new schools, bring clothing and all sorts of stuff to help people out.
Simply because you do not follow Jesus commands by killing anyone who seves another god.
Quote:You can't go by a few verses that were taken out of context in order to purposely make the Christian faith look like killers.
Please explain the context of the verses I quoted.
Quote:Look at the whole picture, not just at the few who call themselves Christians and dirty God's name by the evil deeds they do.
Those evil deeds are found in the Bible. Do you call God commands evil deeds???
Quote:I'm reading the "Noble" Qu'ran and I've found many verses that say not to take Christians and Jews as freinds
The word is "Awliyaa" which means religeous leaders to follow. Big difference.
But the disaster is what Jesus said:
Jesus ordered not to associate with non-Christians, and not to receive them into our house or even exchange greeting with [2 John 10]
Quote:and just about every other verse talks abour fire and hell to the unbeleivers.
This is true
Quote:They reject the deity of Jesus even though it admits in the belief of his virginal birth.
And what the virgin birth has to do with Jesus deity?
Adam had no father nor a mother, so why isn't he God also?
Quote:Now if we want to talk about killing, then please, kindly explain to me why the "terrorists" (that you say "aren't") that flew those jets into the twin towers and the Pentagon were Muslims ?
Why the "freedom fighters" (terrorists) that killed hundreds of innocent school children in Russia where Muslims ?
Why the bombings in all U.S. embassies have been bombed by Muslims?
Why the genocide being committed in Sudan is being committed by Muslims? Why are all suicidal (murderers) bombers Muslim ?
What has innocent people in buses, or in pizzerias done to these Muslims to have to defend themselves?
Who told you that they were real Muslims?
Did you read the topic and see how Jews, Christians and Muslims do not follow the commands of God?
Jews and Christians are ordrered by God to kill yet they rejected God commands.
Muslims are ordered to fight only as self defense, yet these so-called Muslims rejected God commands.
Quote:Sura Part Five
34. Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (stregth) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly) : but if they return to obedience, seek not agaisnt them means (of annoyance) : for Allah is Most High, Great (above you all).
The problem comes from the word "Idribuhunne" which we used to translate as "beat them". The root of this word is "Daraba you look at any Arabic dictionary you will find a long list of meanings ascribed to this word. That list is one of the longest list in whole Arabic dictionary. It can be said that "Daraba the number-one multi-meaning word in Arabic. It has so many different meanings, we can find numerous different meanings ascribed to it in the Quran.
- To travel, to get out: 3:156; 4:101; 38:44; 73:20; 2:273
- strike: 2:60,73; 7:160; 8:12; 20:77; 24:31; 26:63; 37:93; 47:4
- beat: 8:50; 47:27
- set up: 43:58; 57:13
- give (examples): 14:24,45; 16:75,76,112; 18:32,45; 24:35; 30:28,58; 36:78; 39:27,29; 43:17; 59:21; 66:10,11
- take away, to ignore: 43:5
- condemn: 2:61
- seal, to draw over: 18:11
- cover: 24:31
- explain: 13:17
"Daraba also other meanings which are not mentioned in the Quran like "to separate", "to part". For example, in the Arabic language, you do not multiply numbers--you "Daraba" numbers.
The other word to look for is "nushuz" which mean "'marital discord" or "ill-will ".
In the context of the above verse the most appropriate meaning for nushuz is 'marital discord' , and that for 'adriboo' is 'to separate' or 'to part'. Otherwise it is inviting the likelihood of a divorce without any reconciliation procedure and this will contravene the Qur'anic guidance as shown in verse 4:35. The separation could be temporary or permanent depending on the reconciliation procedure, and this fits in very well with the divorce procedure outlined in the Qur'an (see 8.5). Therefore the translation of the above verse would be:
Sûrah al Nisa 4:34
As for those women whose animosity or ill-will you have reason to fear, then leave them alone in bed, and then separate; and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek a way against them.
The verse following the above verse gives further weight to the above translation.
Sûrah al Nisa 4:35
And if ye fear a breach between them twain (the man and the wife), appoint an arbiter from his folk and an arbiter from her folk. If they desire amendment Allah will make them of one mind. Lo! Allah is ever knower, Aware.
Quote:Let's stop the hating, the finger pointing and be honest. If we're going to quote verses from any holy book, let's also quote the ones that talk about love and forgiveness. Remember, the Muslims say that Allah is the God of Abraham, Is'mael, Isaac, ....and so do the Jews and Christians beleive the same.
We're all cousins.
Excellent rational thinking.
