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What if Jews, Christians, and Muslims follow their Holy Book

 
 
Cyanure
 
Reply Mon 8 Nov, 2004 03:37 pm
What if Jews and Christians follow their Holy Bible?

Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. [2 Chronicles 15:12-13]

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. [Deuteronomy 13:7-12]

(PS: Christians believe that Muslims worship the pagan moon god, so the Bible orders them to Kill Muslims, Hinduism, Buddhism, Atheists, Agnostics, Bahaism, Zoroastrians, Sabeans, Yizidism...)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." [Deuteronomy 13:13-19]

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' [Exodus 31:12-15]


Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. [Exodus 22:17]

Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. [Leviticus 20:27]

Kill Sons of Sinners
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. [Isaiah 14:21]

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. [Deuteronomy 17:12]

Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. [Leviticus 24:10-16]

Kill anyone who curse his father or mother
For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. [Matthew 15:4-7]



What if Muslims follow their Noble Qur'an?

Since Muhammad convoked people to Islam, the pagans didn't stop even for an instance from killing, slaughtering and torturing Muslims. For many years, Muhammad and his Muslim followers endured the torment of pagans without even responding.
Muhammad had a treaty with the pagans. This treaty was really oppressive toward Muhammad and Muslims but Muhammad accepted it. No long after, the pagans revoked this treaty, and then started again to kill and to slaughter Muslims.
The situation was no more bearable, and Muhammad and his Muslim followers had no other choice than to defend themselves from tyranny and for the right to coexist.
So Muhammad and his Muslim followers were ordered by God Almighty to fight back those pagans as self defense actions. So all the verses in The Noble Qur'an that apparently talking about killing and slaughtering are in fact referring to the war as a fight back or self defense


For example: verse 2:191: And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out.


This verse looks really violent, but just read the verse before:

"And Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Surely Allah loveth not aggressors". [The Noble Qur'an 2:190].


Now it's clear that Muslims here are ordered to fight only as a self defense those who fight them first, and what is more important here is that God ordered all Muslims not to be aggressors and not to start a fight unless they are attacked.

Just when the verses are not misquoted, we see clearly that Islam only orders a fight just when Muslims are attacked as a self defense action.

What about the rest of the verses which seem to be linked to killing and terrorism? Let's have some examples:

"Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." [The Noble Qur'an 8:12]


This misquoted verse looks really aggressive. However if one would read the next verse, he will find that he was wrong:

"This is because they acted adversely to Allah and His Messenger; and whoever acts adversely to Allah and His Messenger-- then surely Allah is severe in requiting (evil)" [The Noble Qur'an 8:13].


So??? The reason for verse 12 is that these pagans acted adversely against God and Muhammad and the Muslims. Thus it is clear that this verse refers to those who clearly declared their hostilities against Islam and seek to wage wars against the Muslims.


"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement, Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful". [The Noble Qur'an 5:33-34].

So these verses also clearly state that Muslims must fight back those who wage wars against them. And if a pagan or an enemy repents or surrenders, then Muslims don't have the right to kill him.


What about the verse 9:5 :
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful

Well let's look at the verse before:

"Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty)". [The Noble Qur'an 9:4].

Well it's clear that verse 5 was talking about the unbelievers who attacked and killed the Muslims, and therefore Muslims reacted as a self-defense!!! God asks Muslims not to go in wars against the unbelievers who didn't fight them!!!

Furthermore, The Noble Qur'an says that if an enemy surrender, then Muslim is obliged to protect him and to escort him to a secure place:

"And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not". [The Noble Qur'an 9:6]

Please tell me which army in our days would be obliged to protect and convey an enemy to a safe place???

The Noble Qur'an clearly states that Muslims don't have the right to attack someone if he didn't attack them:

"Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice". [The Noble Qur'an 60:8].


Other examples:

Q:
Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks [47:4]

A:
The chapter starts with:
Those who reject Allah and hinder (men) from the Path of Allah,- their deeds will Allah render astray (from their mark).
So shouldn't the pagans who were killing people that want to join Islam be fought as a self defense? Or should we let the pagans massacring men?
See when reading in context those things become clearer?

Q:

Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan. [4:76]


A:

The verse before:
O you who believe! take your precaution, then go forth in detachments or go forth in a body. [verse 71]
So the Muslims were in war to defend themselves against pagans and God asked them to be aware from pagans' perfidy.
See when reading in context those things become clearer?

Q:
O Prophet! urge the believers to war; [8:65]

A:

Read the verses before:
Those of them with whom thou madest a treaty, and then at every opportunity they break their treaty, and they keep not duty (to Allah). [verse 56]
They broke the treaty and start to kill Muslims again.
See when reading in context those things become clearer?

Q:

Warfare is ordained for you, [2:216]
And fight in the way of Allah, and know that Allah is Hearing, Knowing. [2:244]


A:

The verses are detailed continuation of verses 190:
Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. See when reading in context those things become clearer?


Conclusion

The funny thing is that neither Jews, nor Christians, nor Muslims follow their Holy Books.

Christians and Jews are ordered by the Holy Bible to kill, and kill, and kill, but they rejected God commands and pretend a fake peace.

So-called Muslims are ordered by the Noble Qur'an to fight only as a self defense, but they rejected God commands and gone into Killing, and killing, killing...
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Nov, 2004 03:54 pm
it's amazing how Christians always point to the Old Testament to shore up their decidely non Christian actions isn't it?

Jesus........... man I'd be pissed if I were Him.....
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Nov, 2004 04:13 pm
Amazing too how zealots and malcontents of any stripe can sift through sacred writings and pull up snippets of text that support any absurd notion they care to press.

There's an unbridgeable difference between evidence and agenda, between argument and screed. The distinction is lost on many.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Nov, 2004 04:46 pm
agreed timber...

"There's never been a fool with an idea that couldn't find a passage of scripture to back it up"

I paraphrase, but I believe my relative William Shakespeare is attributed to that quote....it's a great one....
0 Replies
 
Isha
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 02:26 am
:wink:
0 Replies
 
Isha
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 02:39 am
:wink:
hmmm....christians are not ordered to kill, kill, kill...lest u forget that Jesus said "love your enemies"...."forgive if u want to be forgiven", Jesus also said that He came to abolish the law and instead live under grace because it's impossible for anyone to be perfect and not break any of the Jewish laws.

If Christians were ordered to kill, kill, kill, then you wouldn't see Christians traveling all over the world not only to bring the gospel to people that have never heard of it, but also to deliver aid to the poor, the sick, when there are disasters..etc..etc....regardless of the people's religion.

The number one humanitarians are Christians. You don't see Muslims, Jews, Atheists, Wiccans, Buddihsts, Hindus..etc..going to third world countries, or jungles to help bring medicines, build homes, teach women how to be independent, build new schools, bring clothing and all sorts of stuff to help people out.

Yes, I know there are organizations out there that are non-christian doing good things too, especially when it comes to the environment or animals, but the majority of the help is coming from Christian people that are following what Jesus said when he ordered us to help the poor, the sick, the widowed, the hungry, the homeless, the orphaned, regardless of their religion.

Many Christians have been imprisoned, tortured and killed in countries where Christianity is against the law, but still, Chrisitans continue to go to those countries to help and others.
They're building new clinics, schools, homes, orphanages, drug rehab centers...they take volunteer nurses and doctors to help out...etc..I know because I've been on such trips and I write encouragin letters to those imprisoned.

We're also bringing toys to kids from 91 countries thru Operation Christmas Child.
Thousands of Christians are filling shoe boxes with toilettries, school supplies, toys and we're dropping them off at certain collection sites where they will be flown to 91 different countries and delivered to thousands of kids of different ethnic backrounds, color, and religion. This is being done thru Samaritans Purse.

Angel Tree...almost every mall has Angel Trees at Christmas time. This is for children whose parents or parent are in prison. You pick a child (an angel) off the tree, buy them a gift from their list, give it to Angel Tree and it's delivered to the child as if they were getting it from their parents.
Salvation Army. Not only during Christmas, but the whole year, they provide shelter, drug rehab, medicine, to thousands of people regardless of their religion. During natural disasters, they are there, helping the victims.
See?
You can't go by a few verses that were taken out of context in order to purposely make the Christian faith look like killers.
Look at the whole picture, not just at the few who call themselves Christians and dirty God's name by the evil deeds they do.
Remember that not everyone that calls themselves a Christian is truly a Christian.

There are many hate mongers in the Christian faith, just like there are haters in Islam, Judaism, Hinduism and any other beleif out there.
If you're going to quote verses from the bible, then be fair and quote the verses before or after just like you did for the Muslims. In each of those bible verses there are whole stories attached, it's not just a verse that comes out of no where saying kill so and so, let's tell the whole story.
I'm reading the "Noble" Qu'ran and I've found many verses that say not to take Christians and Jews as freinds and just about every other verse talks abour fire and hell to the unbeleivers. They reject the deity of Jesus even though it admits in the belief of his virginal birth. It says that everyone, including Jesus were Musliims. I have a Muslim friend at work and he's explaining some of this stuff for me.

Now if we want to talk about killing, then please, kindly explain to me why the "terrorists" (that you say "aren't") that flew those jets into the twin towers and the Pentagon were Muslims ?

Why the "freedom fighters" (terrorists) that killed hundreds of innocent school children in Russia where Muslims ?

Why the bombings in all U.S. embassies have been bombed by Muslims?

Why the genocide being committed in Sudan is being committed by Muslims? Why are all suicidal (murderers) bombers Muslim ?

What has innocent people in buses, or in pizzerias done to these Muslims to have to defend themselves?
If the soldiers are doing the killing, then let the armies continue to kill each other if they insist, but exploding yourself and killing innocent bystanders, including other Muslims is not considered self-defense.
Yes, every religion and non-religious people are guilty of attrocities but in this day and age, we should not be pointing fingers and taking out of context, biblical verses, in order to make all Christians look like killers when that is not the truth.

The crusades ?...they were committed by Catholics, not Christians. Infact, many Christians have been killed by Catholics who said we were heretics for not bowing down to their Popes and idols. Yet, right now, except for Ireland and such, there's pretty much a lot of peace between the two.

Yes, Protestants have done their share of stupid, ignorant, unbiblical things too. Native Americans come to mind.

Let's also not forget the millions of Jews that have been killed since the beginning of bible times, by the Phillistines, the Arabs, the Nazis, and the Romans, the Muslims and others I'm forgetting.

Almost 2 thousand years ago, the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and killed countless Jews, the survivors fled as refugees to other countries and lived in these other lands until May 14, 1948 when England with an agreement by the UN gave the Jews back their land because they were the only people without a country.
When the Jews began returning to Israel, there were Arabs already living there and they weren't calling themselves Palestinians because they didn't call themselves that until 1967.

So all in all, the world is just one big yogurt. It's all mixed up.
Everyone is guilty.
Everyone is innocent.
Let's stop the hating, the finger pointing and be honest. If we're going to quote verses from any holy book, let's also quote the ones that talk about love and forgiveness. Remember, the Muslims say that Allah is the God of Abraham, Is'mael, Isaac, ....and so do the Jews and Christians beleive the same.
We're all cousins.

_________________
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 04:13 am
Them holy books sure do creep me out. I personally prefer romance novels and maybe a little Stephen King when I'm feeling halloweenish.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 04:23 am
timberlandko wrote:
Amazing too how zealots and malcontents of any stripe can sift through sacred writings and pull up snippets of text that support any absurd notion they care to press.

There's an unbridgeable difference between evidence and agenda, between argument and screed. The distinction is lost on many.



Yes it is. It is lost in your arguments of these issues, Timber.

I consider the god of the Bible to be a murderous, jealously driven, vindictive, petty, barbarian. Whenever I, or anyone, pulls out the quotes that lead me to that conclusion...people like you immediately start that nonsense that somehow we are merely pulling up snippets of text that support absurd notions.

Well that simply is not so.

The god of the Bible...the god your Jesus worshipped...is a murderous, jealously driven, vindictive, petty, barbarian.

Read the passages Cyanure quoted! Think of the many other passages I have quoted over the years.

How are you blind to what the god of the Bible actually is...and why do you consider the evidence we offer as irrelevant?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 08:59 am
Not at all Frank ... one cannot exclude biblethumpers from the list of zealots and malcontents who employ the intellectually and ethically bankrupt practice. You of all folks oughtta realize that, and realize that precisely is my point. An absurd notion is an absurd notion no matter how presented or by whom, and chief among absurd notions are just about any championed by religionists regardless of stripe. Tripe is tripe, and moreso when supported, justified, and rationalized with what essentially is nothing but internally propped-up tripe, tripe unsucceptable to external corroboration. Circular logic is no path to righteousness, though it is the path chosen most often by the indignantly, exclusionary, prejudicially, hypocritically, ludicrously righteous.


But I forgive you your trespass ... I figure you're just cranky this morning, and I'll give you a slide on your above posted absurd notion, knowing you to be otherwise acceptably unabsurd in your notions.


Even if you are sometimes a little overly exhuberant in your indignation :wink:
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Isha
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 01:16 pm
I never said those verses were irrelevant.
Just imcomplete.
You chose not to elaborate on those verses completely and tell the whole story.

You say I am blind.

Blind is the person who condemns an entire religion based on a few verses and denying to read the rest.

Blind is the person who turns a blind eye to the terrorist attacks all over the world,including the U.S. in the name of Allah.

Blind is the person who chooses to ignore the kind and caring deeds of these hateful christians towards not only their communities but across the world in the name of Jesus.

I've chosen not to be completely biased against the Qur'an, that is why I'm reading all of it, not just a few verses.
One cannot make a wise judgement on just a few verses.

I asked a few questions earlier, as to why the Muslims did and do all the attrocities they do on innocent people.

You did not answer that.

Perhaps you overlooked it.

If you'd be so inclined, would you please answer those questions for me, a seeker of "the why"?

Why did those passengers, and fellow flight attendants and pilots of mine have to die in the name of Allah?

I don't know of one flight attendant or pilot that killed these Muslims families in the name of Jesus, or Buddah, or Santa Claus for that matter.
Why?

I'd also like to point out, that I for one, do not thump my bible.

I am cool, calm and collected.

When those I'm debating with (face to face), loose their cool, the debate is over. Why get stressed out, bent out of shape, and mess with my blood pressure when all things can be said in a calm and intelligent manner?

No, my bible doesn't get thumped, nor does my Jewish bible, or my Qur'an.

Words from the Qur'an.
Sura Part Five
34. Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (stregth) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly) : but if they return to obedience, seek not agaisnt them means (of annoyance) : for Allah is Most High, Great (above you all).

Ahhhh....how sweet. Beat them lightly. Complete obedience to the husband. I've seen pictures of Muslim women with acid thrown in their face by their husbands for not being "obedient".
It is common knowledge that husbands, or fathers and brothers can kill their wife, daughter, or sister if they are no longer virgins even if it's due to a rape!
That's why in Afghanistan, these poor women get the crap beat out of them, if they lift their burka in order to read the price of a product in the marketplace.
They are being obedient to the stupidest rules because they live in terror of their fine, mercyful, husbands who follow Allah's teachings.
Thump that.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 01:17 pm
The simple answer to the posed question is that profit margins would be in the shitter.....therefore it won't happen.....
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Isha
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 01:48 pm
your posts
Just finished reading a lot of your posts, very interesting indeed. I take it you are a Muslim? If you are, and the Qur'an, as you say, doesn't preach hatred to Jews and Christians, then why do you make the Christian bible sound like all it says is kill, kill, kill when you know that there are many good hearted Christians out there that read their bible and just practice love? I for one am one of them.
I have Muslim friends. They know my spiritual beleifs. They also know that I don't hold them personally accountable for what the Islamic terrorists do.
I don't know if you've had some real bad experiences with some so called Christians but don't put all of us in the same boat.
I would not hate you, unless you killed, raped or tortured some innocent person. Then I'd hate you for your crime, not your religion, or skin color, or anything else.
And yes, according to the New Testament, Christians are not supposed to hate, but hey, I'm human, imperfect and full of emotions. God understands that. He made me.
:wink:
Just wanted to let you know that now that I've read more of your posts, I see a bigger picture and you also seem like a very intelligent computer savvy person who helps others with their computer dramas and that's cool.
I call them computer dramas 'cause nothing turns me more into a drama queen than when my computer malfunctions and I can't figure it out.
Laughing ciao...............Isha
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 02:34 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Not at all Frank ... one cannot exclude biblethumpers from the list of zealots and malcontents who employ the intellectually and ethically bankrupt practice. You of all folks oughtta realize that, and realize that precisely is my point. An absurd notion is an absurd notion no matter how presented or by whom, and chief among absurd notions are just about any championed by religionists regardless of stripe. Tripe is tripe, and moreso when supported, justified, and rationalized with what essentially is nothing but internally propped-up tripe, tripe unsucceptable to external corroboration. Circular logic is no path to righteousness, though it is the path chosen most often by the indignantly, exclusionary, prejudicially, hypocritically, ludicrously righteous.


But I forgive you your trespass ... I figure you're just cranky this morning, and I'll give you a slide on your above posted absurd notion, knowing you to be otherwise acceptably unabsurd in your notions.


Even if you are sometimes a little overly exhuberant in your indignation :wink:


Sorry, Timber...but what I see in the Bible is a god that is jealous, vengeful, vindictive, murderous, quick to anger, slow to forgive, petty, and barbaric. Whenever the god is on the scene...humans are either being threatened, killed, or being asked to kill others.

That is what I see in the first 200 pages of the Bible.

Then I see another thousand pages of words in praise of the god...by people who obviously are scared out of their wits of the monster.

I offer you the opportunity to point out as many instances as you can of the god being on the scene where someone is not being threatened, killed, or being asked to kill others.

The god...which any dispassionate reading of the book has to show is obviously a creation of the biblical writers...is one of the most ferocious gods ever invented. And for what appears to be good reason.

The ancient Hebrews, who apparently invented the god, needed a ferocious god to protect them from the ferocious gods of their perceived enemies.

Pointing that stuff out is not tripe, Timber. It is simply what is there in the book.

Obviously for people devoted to that god...that truth hurts.

So...if you think I am wrong...let's start.

Point out a few instance where your god is actually on the scene doing things...and let's see how many you can find where the god is not doing those barbaric things I mentioned. And then we will count the barbaric incidents...and see how the scales balance.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 02:49 pm
What is most tripely Frank is to assert the God of The Bible is my god, apart from the unwarranted assumption I even acknowledge there is a God or gods let alone claim one or any in specific or in general for my own.

I think you wrongly perceive, or at the very least inaccurately portray me to be an advocate for a concept the nature of which we both pretty much agree on. Not to disappoint ya, but other than that, you ain't gonna get any argument on this from me.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 02:54 pm
timberlandko wrote:
What is most tripely Frank is to assert the God of The Bible is my god, apart from the unwarranted assumption I even acknowledge there is a God or gods let alone claim one or any in specific or in general for my own.

I think you wrongly perceive, or at the very least inaccurately portray me to be an advocate for a concept the nature of which we both pretty much agree on. Not to disappoint ya, but other than that, you ain't gonna get any argument on this from me.



That's the second time you've caught me on that, Timber. I really gotta remember that. But keep in mind that I am an old guy...and we are prone to forget. In fact, some times we are not prone...and we forget anywayz. :wink:
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 03:01 pm
NP, Frank ... we of a certain age all DO have "those moments" from time to time :wink: Laughing
0 Replies
 
The Odious Wasp
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 06:37 pm
Here's a humorous stance on this from a letter written to Dr. Laura a few years back:
Quote:
Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him or her that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other laws and how to best follow them:

* When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). I understand that the bull cannot be castrated (Lev 22:24), but the problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?

* I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as suggested in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

* I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

* Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify?

* I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

* A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

- A Fan (original author unknown)
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 06:39 pm
I think most of us posting in this forum have seen that letter...and most of us have seen it many times.

I enjoy seeing it every time I see it...and I thank you for offering it again, Wasp.
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bigdice67
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 07:18 pm
I'd like to see Dr. Laura's answers...
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 07:21 pm
So would lotsa folks ... Frank and I among 'em. I know I'd be willin' to stand in line a night and a day unsheltered in a driving rainstorm for an opportunity to buy a ticket to be in the audience of the show on which she answers 'em Laughing
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