grandchildren never say thank you

BTW, receiving a thank you, either formal or informal, also brings joy to the person who was kind enough to send a gift. I enjoy giving and I don't give to receive, but I do send thank you notes to people who have done nice things for me just because it will brighten their day a little. I am not judging you if you don't want to follow this practice, I am only telling you the reason why I think it's a nice gesture.

I too, think it is fun to give gifts, to find something people like. It should be
because you just found the thing you think would be the right thing.
All my life relatives and friends have often been living in other countries than I did - at one time in four continents. Then you apriciate a thank you for knowing the postal system worked.

In Sweden we used to be very strict about formal things. Almost worse than in Germany. Things have changed a lot. People are still formal, but in a very nice relaxed and still correct way. It seems more to come from the heart than "it must be like this"
In Germany things are getting more relaxed too. Especially amongst young people. Most of the time you are not on first name basis with people, but it is not as stiff and unfriendly as it used to be. Much less snobbism.
The Danes are more relaxed, more fun than the Swedes and Germans, do not
hang on to forms as much. But it is expected that you know how to behave in certain situations. "How to walk on polished floors" aas they would say.

No, I find that young people are polite. As a rule what I see they are helpful, they great people. They simply behave also according to the old rules even though they have some new ones which fits life today. They open doors, help with suitcases, they often do not push or try to get ahead in queue
It is nicer to sit down at a table, where everyone eats with knife and fork and not some with theirs fingers and others lick the plates. All rules and regulations are not bad.

That there is a strong tendency to mobbing and fighting is another side. But that is the minority.

I hope you grow up and think more of others and less of yourself.

if that is truly the case then don't worry about whether you get a thank you or not

__

as I have said several times, it is nice to be thanked but I do not give gifts in anticipation of a thank you and would not with-hold a gift because the recipient wouldn't thank me or hasn't thanked me in the past

as you noted earlier in the thread - it is more blessed to give than to receive . your blessing is in the giving, not in receiving a thank you.

Fil Albuquerque is grown up. He just lives without your kind of social rigidity.

My gift to my grandchildren may not consist of a new toy, but I would never "withhold" a gift. I plan to leave them a heritage of caring for others and what better gift could I possibly give them?

I'll maintain my "social rigidity" if it means thinking of others before myself. Maybe you should try it for yourself.

Considering that you are arguing for social politeness, this post seems a little nasty. It is even (dare I say) a little rude.

It is in response to a very rude comment by "osso" re social rigidity. Since when is thoughtfulness "social rigidity"?

There is a big difference between thoughtfulness and politeness. Thoughtfulness means that you think of what people like as individuals. Politeness means you follow a set of social rules based on what some people think is proper behavior.

I respect thoughtfulness. I don't care at all about politeness.

I don't care a bit if you write me a thank you note after I have cooked for you. It is an empty gesture. On the other hand I might write you a thank you note if I know it is important to you. But I will do this based on my relationship with you not on some set of social rules. If you give me dead plants as a sign of gratitude.... all it it means to me is that you don't know me very well.

The idea that everyone follows the same set of rules is ridiculous. I have a group of friends that would likely offend you. I know people who are perfectly happy eating with their hands, or slurping, or making off-color jokes. Yet they are good people who honestly care about me, they are generous to a fault and are fun to be with.

Then there are clear cultural differences even in different parts of the US.

When I go visit my sister in the South, I find that people I don't know will greet me warmly and inquire about how I am doing. I don't appreciate this. It seems so superficial; they are following a social script with no real meaning. They don't care one bit how I am doing and if I told them honestly how I am doing they would think it rude.

In the Northeast people save warm greetings for people they actually have a real relationship with. Once you get to know a person from Boston, you really know them and you can trust that warmth means something. I prefer this, but I accept when I am in the South this is something that is part of the culture. I try not to judge.

whoa whoa whoa
that's nasty

do you want an honest answer?

FYI I am from the Northeast and I don't reserve warm greetings to people I have a relationship with. However, our discussion here is regarding the long forgotten niceties that make our society a better place to live and that includes thinking of others. People who are thoughtful often are considered to be polite as well. I know many people who are polite out of real concern for people not just out of habit. What you describe is phoniness and there are plenty of phonies out there, both polite and impolite. If I enjoyed your cooking I would not thank you as an empty gesture. I would let you know I enjoyed it because I really enjoyed it and I wanted you to know. If I thought your cooking was lousy I would tell you I enjoyed your company and leave out comments about your terrible cooking, just to let you know I had a fun evening. You might have known yourself that your cooking wasn't up to par, but still it would boost your spirits to let you know your company itself was appreciated. That is not following a set of rules, but rather real thoughtfulness.

What makes you think that thoughtfulness and politeness are two different things?.
I am used to outside of Sweden when shopping I put my items on the band look behind me and if a person has just one or two items I let that person go ahead.
When I do the same thing in Sweden the person says Oh No. I find it very strange. But they are afraid of it will be seen as "jumping the queue" and disturbing me.
IN Sweden and Denmark someone asks you "How are you" it is just like saying hello. You answer Fine. That´s it.
In another country you are supposed to tell about every illness the last two weeks in your family. Which I do no do. I am too much of a Scandinavian.

late reply, after rereading the thread -
Max mentions his grandmother was born in 1910... which made me grin when I first read it.

My mother was born in 1901; as it happens, that was in Boston. My father was born in Santa Rosa, California, in 1906, big earthquake year there.

From the get go, I grew aware of a variety of social mores, even with my parents and their friends, and then with other family and decades of my own friends.

I still don't get punishing a child on her 7th birthday for not obeying granny's rules that the child's parents either failed or chose not to inculcate in the child. That's plain punitive. If the parents want to insist she write thank you notes (geez) or telephone granny, that is their business to take care of.

Sorry, but we're not talking about granny's rules here. It's a bit more than that. We're talking about passing along important values to the next generation, so they will be able to live happy and well adjusted lives. Looking around at the widespread misery in our materialistic society, especially among the young (drug use, crime, suicide), it seems that there is abject failure in this department. You don't need to be concerned for my grandchildren. They get plenty of love and attention from granny and they have more "stuff" than they will ever know what to do with (from me as well as their parents). My concern is too much emphasis on "useless" stuff and not enough on becoming quality people. In other words more stuff may not be the answer.

Nonsense!

Kids today more decent, more kind and more just than the kids of your generation. Name what time that you think that society was better than it is today, and we will compare. The youth of today are kinder today than you were. They are more accepting then you were. They are more generous and more decent. Society today is better than the society of any other time in our history.

When you were a kid, black people weren't allowed into swimming pools, pregnant girls were sent away, and people were beaten up even if there was a suspicion that they were "queer". You can be polite and still be a complete jerk.

Your generation was more miserable than the generation of today.

Check the statistics and you will find that there is also more drug abuse, more suicides and more broken families than when I was a kid. The numbers tell the story.

Ok, I just checked the statistics.

You are wrong about suicides. The suicide rate today is slightly lower than it was when you were a kid (I am assuming you were a kid sometime in the range of 1920-1960).

There weren't "broken families", but a lot of that was due to the fact that women were forced to stay in a marriage even in the case of physical abuse. When you were a kid, a polite wife would just accept when her husband beat her. And we are much kinder now to single parent families today... being a single mother in 1950 was not a very pleasant experience.

There was almost certainly more alcoholism when you were a kid than there is now. We have a much better response with treatment options that weren't available in earlier times (which it was generally swept under the rug). Of course, domestic violence (long associated with alcohol abuse) was accepted as normal when you were a kid.

I couldn't find much information about historical Cocaine and Heroin use. Both were available in America for more than a century (cocaine was legal for a while). What I know about today is that drug use is reported and treated. I couldn't find statistics, but if you have them I would be very interested to see them.