brains in vats

Okay, thanks for the explanation TTF.

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How would a brain in a vat reproduce and if it couldn't,which it couldn't,how could it evolve enough to have the technology of vat manufacture and nutrient flow.A brain in a vat would have to have always been a fundamental aspect of the universe.
You've all seen The Man With Two Brains surely.
If it reproduced by splitting the vat would be full by now unless it's life-span was long enough to over-ride the law of entropy.If the vat had infinite proportions would it be a vat.Is a vat a concept that only has meaning to an organism which is not a brain in a vat.Such as an organism which thinks of a vat as a container for getting beer from the brewery to the dispensing nipples.

spendius.

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I hope I am not a brain in a vat, but I don't think I would guess that I was, if the computer was skilful enough with the simulations. As several mentioned I would be dependent on someone not in a vat (A robot perhaps) to provide the vat, nutrients and trouble shoot my life support system of which I could be completely unaware. Neil

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Funny to find this topic. I was just reading Putnam's essay for a paper on philosophy and googled for some discussion about it.

The crux of Putnam's argument is not to deny the possibility that we live in a simulated reality, or rather that talking about it is intrinsically and logically a fallacy in itself.

We cannot use the word "simulation", "matrix" or "vat" simply because those words bear meaning in our reality and our experience which is limited by its own nature. Because of that reason we cannot say anything regarding anything outside our experience or ability to refer and intend.

I must say his article lacks structure but the argument is sound and correct. It is something I have always known, when I think of it. I think anyone would agree about that.

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I have a different reason for disagreeing with Putnam, because we can refer to real human beings. Say I was not born as a brain in a vat, I in fact was born in the real world. I was then captured and my brain put in a vat, and the memory of the capture erased. If I wondered if the people I was seeing as a result of being hooked up to a computer, I would be refering to real human beings.

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catquas wrote:

I have a different reason for disagreeing with Putnam, because we can refer to real human beings. Say I was not born as a brain in a vat, I in fact was born in the real world. I was then captured and my brain put in a vat, and the memory of the capture erased. If I wondered if the people I was seeing as a result of being hooked up to a computer, I would be refering to real human beings.

Part of your last sentence seems to be missing, but are you saying that if you came into contact with real people before you became a brain in a vat you could then, as a brain in a vat, refer to real people? How does that go against Putnam's argument that if you were a brain in a vat you would not be able to refer to brains in vats, and therefore your proposition, "I am or could be a brain in a vat" would be false, and you wouldn't actually be a brain in a vat?

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agrote wrote:

Part of your last sentence seems to be missing, but are you saying that if you came into contact with real people before you became a brain in a vat you could then, as a brain in a vat, refer to real people? How does that go against Putnam's argument that if you were a brain in a vat you would not be able to refer to brains in vats, and therefore your proposition, "I am or could be a brain in a vat" would be false, and you wouldn't actually be a brain in a vat?

Yeah, I meant "If I wondered if the people I was seeing as a result of being hooked up to a computer *were real*, I would be refering to real human beings.

Its possible I don't really understand the argument, bu it seems like if you have knowelge of the real world, you can refer to it. I have never seen China, but that does not mean I cannot refer to it. If I was a brain in a vat, I could wonder if the people I was being made to see were real, and therefore if I was being fed an illusion though some mechanism.

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Sorry about the extensive hiatus. If someone doesn't mind some topic necromancy and would like to resume the discussion, let me know.

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Kail wrote:

Sorry about the extensive hiatus. If someone doesn't mind some topic necromancy and would like to resume the discussion, let me know.

What do you want to discuss?

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brains in vats

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