Thanks for the great link (Judaism 101), Phoenix. All the jews in my social experience have been secular jews. At the most they follow custom only during the Holidays and for the sake of family/community unity, not for G-d's sake. None keep kosher in everyday life. And I've never heard them refer to synagogue, only "temple." Is this only an American phenomenon or are Isreali "seculars" equally liberal? Anyone?
I'm not in Israel. I'm not Israeli. I'm not Jewish.
But ... the wedding that I'm going to be going to
reform Jewish Israeli-Canadian woman marrying conservative Jewish Canadian fella - the Israeli part of the family calls it 'going to temple' - but since they're reform which could be messing up my read of what I 'have' to do.
BoGoWo wrote:i would respectfully suggest this to be a meaningless question;
surely if one believes in a god, and all the 'meaning' inherent in a religious existence, then one is always in the "house of god"!
[While i have no 'gods', i am always in the 'presence' of my beliefs!]
Good point, but the title of this thread uses the phrase "house of worship". I like that a lot better. It seems the builders of the museum-quality churches, mosques, and the like were striving to build Houses of God. While I have been awestruck by many that I have seen, they fail for me to be good houses of worship. Yes, they are wonderful venues for the rituals of great occasions and holy days but for ordinary liturgy, I like something cosier.
A House of God sounds like a place to be entered in fear and trembling, kinda like the great & holy Principal's Office. A house of worship, on the other hand, is for people, not God. That is where they gather with other believers, where they worship, strengthened and affirmed by the presence of their brothers and sisters. God is present always, as you say, but His presence is especially felt where two or more are gathered in His name.
BoGoWo's approach is very lutheran. Or at least reflects what I understand about being lutheran. God (or whatever) is not in the building, but in/with you. If you choose to celebrate with others, that's cool, but the goodness/godliness is not external to you. (or at least that's how I learned it)
George wrote:BoGoWo wrote:i would respectfully suggest this to be a meaningless question;
surely if one believes in a god, and all the 'meaning' inherent in a religious existence, then one is always in the "house of god"!
[While i have no 'gods', i am always in the 'presence' of my beliefs!]
Good point, but the title of this thread uses the phrase "house of worship". I like that a lot better. It seems the builders of the museum-quality churches, mosques, and the like were striving to build Houses of God. While I have been awestruck by many that I have seen, they fail for me to be good houses of worship. Yes, they are wonderful venues for the rituals of great occasions and holy days but for ordinary liturgy, I like something cosier.
A House of God sounds like a place to be entered in fear and trembling, kinda like the great & holy Principal's Office. A house of worship, on the other hand, is for people, not God. That is where they gather with other believers, where they worship, strengthened and affirmed by the presence of their brothers and sisters. God is present always, as you say, but His presence is especially felt where two or more are gathered in His name.
I agree with BoGoWo.
Regarding House of God v. House of Worship, is I think playing with semantics. Most churches/temples/etc. do not have two separate structures for God and for worship. They are one and the same.
And while some may feel His presence more strongly when in a group, I know He and His Agents are with me every single second. I do not need to be with anyone else to feel God's presence. In fact, some of the times I feel Him the strongest are when I am otherwise alone.
Regarding the original question:
I was raised in an atheist household. My husband was raised Lutheran but had become disillusioned with the church. After thirty some years of searching we finally landed in a lovely, little Presbyterian congregation about four years ago. Unfortunately it is about thirty miles from our home and we don't get there nearly as often as we would like to. We probably pass a hundred other churches between here and there but we stay with that congregation. The first time we went there, it felt like we had found home.
George wrote:.........but the title of this thread uses the phrase "house of worship". I like that a lot better. It seems the builders of the museum-quality churches, mosques, and the like were striving to build Houses of God. While I have been awestruck by many that I have seen, they fail for me to be good houses of worship. Yes, they are wonderful venues for the rituals of great occasions and holy days but for ordinary liturgy, I like something cosier.
A House of God sounds like a place to be entered in fear and trembling, kinda like the great & holy Principal's Office. A house of worship, on the other hand, is for people, not God. That is where they gather with other believers, where they worship, strengthened and affirmed by the presence of their brothers and sisters. God is present always, as you say, but His presence is especially felt where two or more are gathered in His name.
good points also! (it was a case of sloppiness on my part - mistaking the term.)
it has always seemed odd though, to me, that there is such a pre-occupation with 'place', for a phenomenon which should be universal.
[i understand, however, the need to gather the 'believers' into a controlable space, where they can be given an 'experience'!]
Jesusgirl has revealed an important function of "church": the pleasure of an intensified sense of community.
And this is the end of my dream, Phoenix, and the very reason that I wrote the poem Cathedral of the Mind:
Be thou my vision, O Lord of my heart
Naught be all else to me save that thou art
Thou my best thought by day or by night
Waking or sleeping thy presence my light.
Be thou my wisdom, thou my true word
I ever with thee, thou with me, Lord
Thou my great Father, I thy true Son
Thou in me dwelling, and I with thee one.
Be thou my battleshield, sword for the fight
Be thou my dignity, thou my delight
Thou my soul's shelter, thou my high tower
Raise thou me heavenward, O power of my power.
Riches I heed not, nor man's empty praise
Thou mine inheritance, now and always
Thou and thou only, first in my heart
High King of heavem, my treasure thou art.
High King of heaven, after victory won
May I reach heaven's joys, O bright heaven's sun
Heart of my own heart, whatever befall
Still be my vision, O ruler of all.
Can you believe that is an Irish hymn? We sang it in a Presbyterian church choir.
I was sitting up in bed one night; could not sleep and it was very dark. Quite suddenly the words to this hymn came to my mind.
That was clearly a call for Valium.
Oh, my, JL. Now you are on my brat brigade list. Why not read my poem and you'll understand. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
My main house of worship is my mind, but I do belong to a spiritual group that I attend regularly.
I like churches/sanctuaries best when I'm the only one in them, just me and quiet stillness, I enjoy the silence, mmmm oh so nice.
Letty,
That's beautiful. I'm confused though. Did you write it?
Either way, thank-you for sharing.
And, Sorry God. I missed church again. I slept till almost noon and am off again to TheHallowedHallsofHealing. Sigh.
Love and peace to all on a cloudy Michigan Sunday.
Hey, JG. Write what? You mean Be Thou My Vision? No, honey, but I was inspired to write a poem after reading Phoenix's thread.
I noticed there wasn't a category on the poll for those of us who Go only in the middle of the night, when the congregation is sleeping, to steal the chalices and other shiny objects
That would be me.
Gustaenduponparole
You should sample the wine next time you stop in.
Gus has, no doubt, sampled the wine before he goes in.
As a chaser for the boos he drinks before going in.
Good Heavens! Three of us are acting like heathens toward Gus, and on the worship thread mind you!
I think, he did that on purpose!......sneaky, very sneaky.
Letty, can you post your poem too?
I'd love to read it.
Who doesn't love to tease Gus...because he teases us.
