Those who lust for war.

Re: Those who lust for war.

I happen to believe that you understand exactly why it's insulting, you just don't care.

Oh...?

Edgar - you think it is more than a human - or nation-state's - desire to have an enemy? The US had a sort of "enemy-vacuum" at the end of the cold war - but do not the Arab nations seem to desire an enemy, too?

Most of human history seems to have involved some sort of struggle - or definition of self - against some sort of enemy - (or "other" for less war-like nations.)

There are some theories that the sort of tribal - and, without terrible weapons, rather ritualized or limitedly dangerous - skirmishes that tend to mark very hunter-gatherer/early agricultural societies - (and those of primates, too - although Goodall's work seems to suggest that these, at least among chimps, can turn genocidal - not to mention those of other animals) - perform a function not only of protecting territory, but of creating excitement and stimulation as well as a sense of group closeness and cohesion.

I think your limiting of your question to the USA is ignoring a dynamic that seems more human - or even more universal than that - than you have been prepared to consider.

Regardless of all the philosophical speculations on the issue, I still consider that delay of war against militant Islam is in favor of the latter: this gives the Muslims time to decrease their retardation in the field of military technologies. If the problem is not solved now, it will be much more difficult to solve it later. What might happen if the WWII started after Hitler having acquired nuclear weapons?

steissd- Unfortunately, I have to agree. As much as I prefer peace over war, we need to face reality, and not keep sticking our heads in the sand.
The middle east fundamentalists have shown that they will do all it takes to accomplish its goal- Including suicide.

I think that it is being ingenuous to think that negotiaitons with a rogue nation will somehow prevent people who are hell bent to destroy, to increase their sophistication in WMDs. The longer that we wait, the more difficult, and dangerous it will be!

In the broad sense of the question, man is a territorial animal. As such he will always find an expression of his need to fight and defend. To make that need more ritualized and less bloody is the commendable goal.

There are Americans who sincerely believe the war against Iraq is necessary. These people have no clear information making that conclusion reasonable. That there is a need for concern where terrorism exists is obvious. It is all in the approach to handling the situation that I disagree with the administration. I am not pro Arab or pro anything else, except justice. We can contain Iraq. After all, we contained the USSR and China for decades. The Bush approach to Israel exacerbates the situation. If anybody in that area wanted true justice there would be a coalition formed to ensure that these two peoples are seperated and kept from each other's throats. Throughout the world we have to keep up pressure to halt terrorist acts, but we also must act to defuse the emotionalism that stirs the terrorists act out their deeds.
It is the anger and fear created by the terrorists that stirs a primal feeling among so many Americans that makes them acquiesce so readily when Bush says that Saddam will go, no matter what the rest of the world says. It has become a lust for war all right, no matter how you describe it.

Hey bunny lady I like your turn of a phase when you say the US is having an "enemy-vacuum". Lacking one our President found one more visible than the shadow terrorist. During the President's speech last night I noted he again invoked phraseology similar to Henry V's direction to his troops when he states this cause is just and our "resolve is not strong".

Only some in the US think this pending war is necessary. I understand that Senator Kennedy is going to introduce a bill today revoking the President's ability to wage a war against Iraq without obtaining the advice and consent of the Senate.

And those that lust for war ( in America) are out of touch with the reality of losing loved ones, and having to sacrifice. They're also out of touch with the history behind the conflicts in the Middle East.

I wonder how tribal people would feel if they had to give up their lifestyle because a war was sucking up their extra spending power, rationing their fuel, generally limiting them, and ultimately taking away their loved ones?

War in the Middle East terrifies me. They will stop at nothing, that's been clearly demonstrated.

How delightfully patronizing, edgarblythe

Edgar, I believe you are sincere, and well and honorably motivated.
I take issue however with your assertion there is "No clear iformation". I feel there is and long since has been available information which mandates the current US position. I admit, however, many proponents of bellicosity are motivated primarily by anticipation of a good fireworks show. I am as contemptuous of such as I am perjorative of those who refuse to acknowledge the immediacy of the situation. I am staunchly Anti-War, and I strongly resent The Iraqi Regime for thrusting this spectre of war upon us.

I also respect and support the sincere and deeply held revulsion toward war in general felt and expressed by many others. If there were none such, this would be a far more dangerous and troublesome planet. Thank you for your service in the matter of calling for serious contemplation of a most serious issue.

It is my sincerest desire that all peoples of the world be afforded the liberty to feel no hesitancy should they find it personally appropriate to publicly and voluably protest such actions and intentions of their governments as they themselves find objectionable. That is the cornerstone of freedom.


timber

Let us not forget that fear of the "other" is a necessary ingredient in "de-humanizing" those whom we would destroy. By this, i mean no criticism of the current administration; everyone here undoubtedly knows the degree of contempt with which i view that administration--nonetheless, i do not charge them with creating or playing upon a racist sentiment toward arabs. But the comments about "camel jockeys," "towel-heads" and "sand niggers" (my apologies for the last term, but i did not invent it) which i hear from all sides lend credence to the contention that there is a powerful streak of anti-arab sentiment in this country. I saw it begin casually in 1967. I was then living in Virginia, and, as my Aunt with whom i lived worked in Crystal City just across the bridge from DC, i was frequently in the city. At that time, you heard jokes such as: "How can you tell an Egyptian tank? It's the one with back-up lights." The tenor and content of the jokes has deteriorated considerably since then. If, in fact, it is appropriate to speak of an anti-arab racism in the US--i believe it is--then it is appropriate to classify it as a tool of dehumanizing the "enemy." Then we can more easily contemplate what Clemens wrote of in The War Prayer: ". . . help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it" After all, if we do not see them as human, we can avoid the empathy which would otherwise wring our hearts in contemplation of such a result.

I have been off and on reading The Seven Pillars of Wisdom by Lawrence and think that anti-Arab feelings did not begin in the US. We have long accepted the prejudices of Europe....

I do think there is a strong anti-Arab and anti-Muslim feeling in this country... and why? Their culture's denigration of women is number one on my list and high on there too is the "just desserts" feelings and rationalizations broadcast about the US after 9/11. The viciousness and cold-blooded hatred of us shown by the terrorists on September 11th... can we say that is isolated and most Muslims don't feel that way?

When somebody doesn't like you... it becomes a two-way street, even in a so-called Christian nation. How many Christians in this government are willing to turn the other cheek?

Shortly after "9/11," i saw a sort of "American Pep Rally" as i was strolling through the channels of Lovey's satellite tv. A young lady stood up to speak, and spoke movingly of the sacrifices which we might be required to make. She then spoke of her family's potential sacrifice, her brother who is a career member of the United States Navy. Given the current situation, that potential sacrifice looms greater in her family's life, i am certain. She is an Arab-American.

Arab-Americans are quite different from mid-east Arabs. They left the mid-east (at some point or their parents did) because they wanted to get away. Whether it was for a greater sense of freedom or whatever, their alliances have changed.

I hope, for that woman and her family's sake, that we don't have a war.

I think you fell afoul of a server glitch, piffka. I imagine others in the past few minutes experienced similar difficulties. Not that it necessary, but if you wish, you could always request deletion of your inadvertantly repeated posts.



timber

You are correct and I was bumped off, too. I would never double up a post on purpose. Egads, that's tripled. A thousand pardons and HELP!

I have deleted the extra posts. The server is s...l...o...w today, hence we are seeing a number of duplications.

Roger
I call it the truth; you call it patronizing. Time will tell.

All of this convincing information that leads us to war - Where is it? Bush says he will prove his case when the time comes, but the time not only has already come; it is rapidly passing us by.