18
   

TrumpCare: What will it look like?

 
 
joefromchicago
 
  4  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2016 04:56 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

No one in the GOP voted for it because they knew it wasn't intended to be applied to everyone.
...
Nope, they were not in favor of universal healthcare.

Let me get this straight: the Republicans didn't vote for Obamacare because it wouldn't cover everybody, and they're not in favor of universal health care. But if they're not in favor of universal health care, why would it matter to them that Obamacare didn't cover everybody?
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2016 04:57 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

Let me get this straight


You failed to get it straight.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2016 05:08 pm
@joefromchicago,
What sort of convoluted logic are you trying to use? It sounds like you got it twisted and not straight at all.

Quote:
Let me get this straight: the Republicans didn't vote for Obamacare because it wouldn't cover everybody,

You got it way wrong and are trying to twist things around. You claim the GOP was against their own idea because Obama was for it. That isn't the case. The GOP didn't vote for the ACA because the version you claim was done by the GOP was not meant to cover everyone in the US. It was meant to be applied to a single state, not all of the states. Clear now?

Quote:
and they're not in favor of universal health care.

You got that part correct.

Quote:
But if they're not in favor of universal health care, why would it matter to them that Obamacare didn't cover everybody?

This is where you got it twisted again and you are not making sense.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2016 05:16 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Which Republicans voted for it to pass?


Olympia Snowe? Maybe I'm misremembering.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  8  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2016 05:21 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:
The GOP didn't vote for the ACA because the version you claim was done by the GOP was not meant to cover everyone in the US. It was meant to be applied to a single state, not all of the states. Clear now?

You're confused. Romney got the idea for Romneycare from Newt Gingrich, who got the idea from the Heritage Foundation, and that version was meant to be applied nationally. And in any event, there's no practical difference between Romneycare and Obamacare. The idiotic notion that Romneycare was qualitatively different because it was only intended to apply to Massachusetts was an excuse that Romney had to come up with in order to oppose Obamacare. Nobody bought that bullshit, then or now. Even Gingrich called him out on that one.
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2016 05:26 pm
Wasn't Romneycare a negotiation between the overwhelmingly Democratic Mass state legislature and a Republican Gov? I hardly call that a Republican program.
MontereyJack
 
  5  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2016 05:31 pm
@McGentrix,
as a resident of MA, I can tell you that Romneycare came pretty straight from HeritageFoundationCare, and they were and are uberconservative.
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2016 05:40 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

as a resident of MA, I can tell you that Romneycare came pretty straight from HeritageFoundationCare, and they were and are uberconservative.


Maybe you should go and edit the wiki then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_health_care_reform
MontereyJack
 
  7  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2016 06:10 pm
@McGentrix,
I read your cite,, which as far as I can see does nothing to disprove my contention. Now you read mine:
Quote:

25 Republicans Who Supported Obamacare Before Obama
ERIKA EICHELBERGERAUG. 27, 2013 5:00 AM
Carline Jean/Sun Sentinel/ZUMAPress

Republicans have pulled out all the stops to kill Obamacare, the president's landmark health care law that requires every American to purchase health insurance by 2014. There have been lawsuits; there have been bills (40 in the House so far); there has been a Supreme Court case—all aimed at rolling back a law that that the GOP says is an assault on individual liberty. Now, with only a few more months to go until the individual mandate—the requirement that we all have coverage—kicks in, Republicans are frantic; some are even threatening to force the United States to default on its debts if Democrats don't agree to delay the law.

This is odd because the individual mandate, the cornerstone of Obamacare, was originally a conservative idea. It was first proposed by the Heritage Foundation in 1989. And scores of Republicans—not just Mitt Romney—have backed the idea in the past couple of decades. Here are some of the GOPers who supported Obamacare before Obama:

1. Rick Santorum? The Allentown Morning Call reported several times in 1994 that Santorum wanted to "require individuals to buy health insurance rather than forcing employers to pay for benefits." Santorum denies allegations that he ever supported an individual mandate.

Ads by ZINC

2. President George H.W. Bush: In 1991, Mark Pauly, an adviser to the first Bush, and now a conservative health economist, came up with a Heritage-style health care proposal for the president as an alternative to the employer-based mandate that Democrats were pushing at the time.

3. Former Vice President Dan Quayle: He was down with the Heritage idea too.

4. Mitt Romney: Romneycare was Romney's signature legislative achievement as governor of Massachusetts, and it served as a model for Obamacare. During the 2012 campaign, the presidential contender had trouble deciding what his position was on Obamacare, and he deflected the blame for having conceived a similar plan; at one debate he noted that "we got the idea of an individual mandate…from [Newt Gingrich]."

5. Newt Gingrich: Though he reversed his position in May 2011, Gingrich had been a big supporter of the individual mandate since his early days in the House. In 1992 and 1993, when Republicans were looking for alternatives to Hillary Clinton's health care plan, many, including then-House minority whip Gingrich, backed the Heritage idea. (Gingrich has said that most conservatives supported an individual mandate for health insurance at the time.)

Twenty of his fellow GOPers cosponsored a 1993 health care bill which included an individual mandate and vouchers for poor people. As health scholar Avik Roy wrote at Forbes in 2012, "Given that there were 43 Republicans in the Senate of the 103rd Congress, these 20 comprised nearly half of the Republican Senate Caucus at that time." Here are those lawmakers:

6. Sen. Bob Dole (R-Kansas)

7. Sen. John Chafee (R-R.I.)

8. Sen. Robert Bennet (R-Utah)

9. Sen. Christopher Bond (R-Mo.)

10. Sen. George Brown (R-Colo.)

11. Sen. John Danforth (R-Mo.)

12. Sen. Pete Domenici (R-N.M.)

13. Sen. David Durenberger (R-Minn.)

14. Sen. Duncan Faircloth (R-N.C.)

15. Sen. William Cohen (R-Maine)

16. Sen. Slade Gorton (R-Wash.)

17. Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa
and eight more. Notice the Heritage Foundation called for an individual mandate, which Romneycare enacted, which with subsidies helps pay for it. As I recall, SCOTUS scuttled the individual mandate in Obamacare. The mandate works in MA. While Romneycare does in fact only cover one state, it was meant in part to serve as a model for the country. There is no significant difference between covering one state and covering the country--only a question of size of the risk pool, and a good0size statte like MA has a sufficiently large risk pool to make it work. The GOP opposed Obamacare because 1, Obama proposed it and they were determined to make him fail from Day 1 of his inauguration. 2, they called it "socialized medicine", which of course Medicare and the VA are too, but the rest of the world, some 30 countries, all have some version of single-payer health care, which costs a fraction of our system, has better public health metrics, and has worked well ffor going on 50 year snow. By contrast, NO country has adopted a version of our system. For good reason.

My cite from Mother Jones.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  3  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2016 07:23 pm
@McGentrix,
Actual facts go over your head when they are in conflict with your opinion's which are paramount in your mind.
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 07:29 am
@RABEL222,
Which facts are those? I wonder because generally you and facts go together like ISIS and Catholicism.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 07:38 am
@Baldimo,
It's my standard retort to complete fantasy....

"Federal government control of that portion of the economy" is just ludicrous. In your mind "publicly-traded insurance companies" equal "Federal control."

You're either delusional or mendacious. Either way, you're not worth the time to argue with.
DrewDad
 
  5  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 07:40 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:
Nobody bought that bullshit, then or now.

Except our resident righties.

If someone in the GOP is selling, they're buying.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  5  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 09:21 am
Here's a fact for you. America pays more per capita on healthcare than Britain yet we have UHC and you don't.

Instead of asking who will be paying you should be asking why you're being ripped off.
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 09:24 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Here's a fact for you. America pays more per capita on healthcare than Britain yet we have UHC and you don't.

Instead of asking who will be paying you should be asking why you're being ripped off.

This bears repeating....
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 09:25 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Here's a fact for you. America pays more per capita on healthcare than Britain yet we have UHC and you don't.

Instead of asking who will be paying you should be asking why you're being ripped off.


What do you suppose my opinion of Single Payer Healthcare in the US is?
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 09:26 am
@McGentrix,
Grab them by the pussy?
McGentrix
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 09:30 am
@izzythepush,
No, that's my wife not Single Payer Healthcare.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 12:00 pm
@DrewDad,
They restrict what types of plans can be created and offered, they tell them how much they have to spend on their services, they tell them who they can and can't cover. It seems the only control the insurance companies have over their own companies is who they can hire and fire. All the rest of the business is dictated by the federal govt.

Does any other type of business have this level of govt involvement? Nope. If I'm wrong then dispute my points instead of running away.
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 12:07 pm
@Baldimo,
I'm pretty sure you'll find that the banking and financial industries are pretty heavily regulated, too. Let's see... auto makers have regulations, the medical profession is regulated by HIPAA, the food industry has regulations, advertising....

Gee, a lot of industries are regulated.

 

Related Topics

Trumpcare passed the House - Discussion by cicerone imposter
 
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 12/02/2021 at 12:48:55