God's Critical Mass

That's funny. I point out there are 'holes' in the science, you agree but then you accuse me of preaching religion. What is your point?

The two areas I was addressing was in cosmology and evolutionary biology. In biology I was noting the relatively recent realization among scientists that neither natural selection nor Lamarckian adaptation is turning out to be adequate to explain the evidence we're seeing. Google the phrase 'a third way' related to biology if interested. This really isn't the thread to debate Evolution, I've done that in others.

In cosmology, it isn't that there are 'holes' in the fabric of science to explain the big bang, the proposed solution to the big question it raises(the 'multiverse') is made up of whole cloth, it's one big hole.

Your mocking of God (Burrito Supreme, etc.) is the tell that gives away what's really bugging you.

I cannot mock what I don't think exists..or if exists, that which I don't think is susceptible to being mocked..Perhaps I mock the idea? And yah, sometimes the idea does bug me. At other times, not so much. Its very much a mood thing..


Natural selection has, for some time, thought to be one of the mechanisms of evolution..yes, there are thought to be others, but NS to my knowledge has not been supplanted.

Lamarkian evolution was proposed in the 1800's, but I don't know that any scientist in our modern era (post WWII? or even before) gives it any credence. Unless there have been some extremely new recent developments, as a theory it seems dead..as opposed to natural selection which is constantly been looked at..

As for cosmology, I don't put a whole lot of scientific stock in answering the "big" questions. There just isn't enough evidence to say anything with any kind of confidence that such and such is True. So, universe expanding? Black holes? As I see it, these things are interesting and should be studied and added to our collective knowledge as much as can be known, but any conclusions (which aren't de-facto True or reasonably testable) I personally take with a grain of salt until the proper factors and thus a likely Truth can be known, if that is even possible..I think conclusions are sometimes too hastily made for sensational reasons..its easier to get grants and/or a spot in a magazine if you are "sure" of something..

Yah, I know. It blows me away that folks who understand something at a high level can be so religious as to believe in the truth of a specific religion.

Then I remind myself that religion is not accessed and/or experienced rationally and that there are certain people that need it emotionally. Not everyone, but some people. Some people need atheism as well. They profess atheism because that's what they need emotionally, but really believe in deity..its a mixed bag for sure..

I agree; for any god to hide himself is a sham. That's the reason most humans don't believe in things they cannot see like the Easter rabbit. They were created for children.

I don't "need" atheism. It's a word that describes those of us who has no belief in a god. To me, nature is god, but man also has the 'power' to pollute and destroy it.

Yeah, I don't either. I wish I could believe. When I was younger I did - at least the traditional Christian religion and it felt better. Why wouldn't it? If you truly believed all rights would be wronged and you were going to live forever with the feeling of an eternal orgasm - hey that's a decent deal..I think beyond so crass an expectation(!) there's also the more sublime aspect of being able to see lost ones again and continue your family..very human concerns..

But my believe is not under my direct control - at least as an honest venture. That's what's weird about some religious people who insist that you believe "just in case". You can't "just" believe. If you are honest (and not one of those people I described who say they don't believe but actually do) about the information you have - you don't have any say in what the result is. You can't force a belief, it is something that is "given" or perhaps a better word to co-opt a religious term - revealed to you by the processes in your brain that deal in logic and information. You get info your brain puts it together with other known info and then you are presented with the outcome - which you can use your ability of reflection to mull over, throw back in the mix with perhaps new information (that the original comparison did not account for) and get re-presented with whatever logical outcome your experiences will give to you..*

This actual process is poorly understood - probably not understood at all really since, being an unconscious process we don't have direct access to it. We can only describe it generally.

*As I mentioned, there is an element of honesty here. Your "brain" (you can substitute mind if you like) will not give you things you can't handle. Hence the caveat of honesty. However, some times, that dishonesty isn't even conscious. So, its not that a person is dishonest, its just that those unconscious processes will not give/present/reveal the correct conclusion to the individual (based on their experiences and the brains internal logic) because to do so would be too painful..

My sister, a devout Christian, tells me it's "free" for eternal life. I didn't have the heart to tell her that's BS. Besides that, my life on this planet was plentiful and satisfactory having traveled extensively around the world.
I'm the only atheist in a family of Christians, and I married a Buddhist. My mother was not happy at our wedding, but I've been happily married for over 50 years.

Well, at least you cop to that beasy

I should clarify. Its not the idea of deity that bugs me. That is actually a fascinating phenomenon.

Its people's poor logic that is often used to justify the belief. And to clarify that, its that folks will use their good, fine, rational minds for one non-deity topic to come to complex and intellectual conclusions, but when it comes to deity, that same reasoning process goes out the window. That bugs me. Especially when its combined with bad behaviour such as justifying killings or not caring about a human habitable planet because 'Jesus is coming back anyway'.

To that I can only say - Amen.