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Trump said, "most people don't deserve respect."

 
 
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2016 01:42 pm
That means most people should not respect Trump.
In addition to his history of racial bigotry, he doesn't respect women. How in the world is this election so close? I don't understand it.
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Type: Question • Score: 5 • Views: 1,880 • Replies: 23
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Foofie
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2016 01:52 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

That means most people should not respect Trump.
In addition to his history of racial bigotry, he doesn't respect women. How in the world is this election so close? I don't understand it.


You seem to be ignoring the many criteria that a person would have to give another respect. It might not always be for the same reasons for different people. For example, a mother might respect another woman that works hard for her children; a man might respect another man that has achieved the accomplishments that he, himself would value. It is a very subjective discernment. I, for example, respect people that proclaim him/herself to feel fortunate to be an American citizen. I tend to find it shortsighted when a person proclaims him/herself to be a citizen of the world, rather than just a citizen of the U.S.. That being because, in my opinion, it could be showing a degree of ingratitude, or at least trivializing, what this country affords many a person and his/her family. I'm sure you see the depth/insightfulness of what I am saying.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2016 05:17 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Foofie, I have you on IGNORE.
roger
 
  2  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2016 07:59 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I'm ignoring both of you. That's why I am not replying.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2016 08:01 pm
@roger,
Thank you. I respect honest people; people who call a spade a spade.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2016 08:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I call it a bleeking shovel. You don't get off iggy that easy.
Blickers
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2016 08:43 pm
Well,Trump doesn't respect women's right to live. In the last debate, Trump went off against late term abortions.
Quote:
Donald Trump moved the goal post to suggest that Hillary Clinton’s position is to support fictional last hour late term abortions, “Now, you can say that that’s OK, and Hillary can say that that’s OK, but it’s not OK with me. Because based on what she is saying, and based on where she’s going and where she’s been, you can take a baby and rip the baby out of the womb. In the ninth month, on the final day and that’s not acceptable.”

Yeah. That sounds really bad. Except no one is doing that. According to Everyday Feminism stats, “…abortions performed after 20 weeks only make up about 1% of total abortions.” Who has them? As Hillary Clinton was trying to point out last night, many late term abortions are had by women who wanted their pregnancy, but either her health is at risk or they find out at 20 weeks, which is the time most people find out, that there are tragic birth defects.

There are already 43 states that “prohibit some abortions after a certain point in pregnancy”.

But even if Trump was right and women were doing this at the very last minute, this is no reason to make abortion before viability illegal, as Trump is suggesting his justices would (he is also wrong about assuming that would happen automatically, but no one is going to accuse Trump of understanding how government works).

This means that Donald Trump would seek to make abortion illegal in all cases, otherwise why is he objecting to a law that already allows states to set restrictions based on the health of the mother.

Since 59% of women seeking an abortion are mothers, Trump is dismissing that this is a family planning and medical decision best left to women, their families and their personal beliefs. Government has no right to order women to die to save a fetus. That is a precedent that is simply absurd, and any thinking person can see why.

Legislating that a fetus has more of a right to live than a woman does is also a non-starter because that can’t be labeled “pro-life.” Republicans keep insisting this is about family, and yet they have Donald Trump – serial adulterer who has been married three times and says women “expire” after 35 – as their standard bearer.

There is no way around the fact that if a woman’s life is in jeopardy, it’s unconstitutional to order her to die to save a fetus. That is the result of making abortion illegal.

http://www.politicususa.com/2016/10/20/fact-check-false-donald-trump-claims-respect-women.html
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2016 08:45 pm
@cicerone imposter,
You always have to see who is saying such statements. Trump is not respected - therefore he laments that others don't deserve respect either.
The people he surrounds himself with don't deserve respect, most of them are just awful - Kellyanne Conway comes to mind, his lawyer, and the list goes on and on. All of them are corrupt, liars, cheaters and will do anything to further themselves. With "most people" he talks about his surroundings and himself of course. All understandable!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2016 08:51 pm
@CalamityJane,
I often wonder how much it cost Trump to buy Kellyanne's soul?
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2016 08:53 pm
@cicerone imposter,
She has none, cicerone!
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2016 02:40 am
@roger,
They're not the same. A spade is for digging and excavating. A shovel is for moving lose stuff like coal, shale etc.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2016 02:45 am
@izzythepush,
It's an old joke.
0 Replies
 
catbeasy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2016 08:12 am
@Foofie,
Help me understand exactly what you mean when you say "what this country affords you". What exactly is it that affords you these rights? So, I have never had a conversation with a country. I have never had an entity that I've known as a country smile at me, give me a parking ticket, allow me in a national park etc. I've had people do all of this.

So, if this is the case, should I show gratitude for particular people who afford me these rights? And which people is that? Does it include my non governmental neighbor? Just the government? Every person who lives in or who has sanctioned rights (presumably granted by others with those same rights) in that designated geographical area? Does that include myself?

Or are you suggesting that I show gratitude to an abstraction? And what exactly does that mean? In my daily life, should I tell people that I am grateful to live here? Or should I actively think it? Does it mean I should never point out the bad things that happen in this geographical area? Or can I point out the bad things and at the same time show gratitude to the people or country? Or if I point out the bad things, does that by definition mean I am showing ingratitude? Under what circumstances in thought or behaviour am I showing ingratitude? And when I show ingratitude do I do so toward people or an abstraction?

And if I show ingratitude, I offend people? And why is this? Does my ingratitude harm people or a "country". Or does any possible harm depend on what composes my ingratitude? Is it possible to love certain things about where you live and certain people and hate other things? And if I am showing the hate at a particular moment due to hateful things happening to and around me does it mean I no longer love the other things I love?

I'm so confused!
catbeasy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2016 08:36 am
@cicerone imposter,
It appears close because it is not rational. All but the psychopathic amongst us can be appealed to by emotion. And it should be this way, wouldn't be able to live effectively without it; probably wouldn't be able to live at all.

The difference is that most of us learn at some point to temper appeals to emotions with facts or at least some attempt at intellectual understanding. We review, test, compare against our experiences. Other people, not so much..

And my guess is with these "other people", there is more psychological stuff going on, an active psychic block against intellectually based information. They want to live on an emotional plane, selectively allowing only that information which supports their views and so makes them feel better. Why? Common psychological phenomenon for those who don't feel good, feel hurt, betrayed and most of all, powerless.

I don't doubt the truth of these feelings. They serve to mask an understanding of the devil they are making a deal with. By religious example, they are selling their birthright for a bowl of Trump porridge.

They trade the immediacy of good feelings for a continued bleak future. But at least for them, Trump and his ilk will be their surrogate. They can temporarily feel good with him; he tells them all the things they want to hear, he provides a sounding board for their frustrations, for what they perceive as great inequities.

The irony of course is that there are great inequities. Their emotions aren't completely baseless. Many of these people have been thrown aside and betrayed by those they feel should speak and do for them. There is truth in much of what Trump says about government. He has moments of clarity that I find truly disturbing, not because his "reveals" are a revelation to me, but because he is using those truths to propel his lies and distortions and to achieve his megalomaniacal goal of aggrandizing himself and those like him.

Personally though, I think the majority of people are passed much of what Trump is. I think he is a last gasp. The people of this country have gotten better over time. Not perfect, but better than 10 years ago, better than, 20, 30, 40 years ago. This isn't to say that it is a given we will continue in that direction. Fights must still be fought, the gains maintained with enough energy to counter the destructive forces Trump et al. brings. I think he will lose in a landslide (a certainty if all possible voters would vote). But if not, we have more work to do than I thought.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2016 12:11 pm
@catbeasy,
Trump sounds more like a god than a politician; he can promise things they he will do as one person in politics. A superman who can disregard how our government works.

It's amazing how many people believe this fraud. Trump is a narcissistic, misogynistic, racial bigot, liar, scammer, and idiot who really believes what he spouts on the media. His wall that'll cost billions of dollars (where is this money coming from?) and immigration policy to remove 11 million illegals in this county should be a clue as to why his message is bull shyt. What kind of police force will he have to remove 11 million illegals? Ban all Muslims? That's against our Constitution. Why is this idiot so popular?

And this guy has the gall to talk about "respect?"
Foofie
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2016 03:16 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

They're not the same. A spade is for digging and excavating. A shovel is for moving lose stuff like coal, shale etc.


So, what were the WWI trenches dug with?
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2016 03:19 pm
@catbeasy,
catbeasy wrote:

... In my daily life, should I tell people that I am grateful to live here? Or should I actively think it?


Yes, and yes.
catbeasy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2016 03:50 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
... In my daily life, should I tell people that I am grateful to live here? Or should I actively think it?


Quote:
Yes, and yes.


Why?
catbeasy
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Oct, 2016 02:03 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
It's amazing how many people believe this fraud

Though I get your general sentiment, Trump represents one side of human life that, sadly, will probably never leave even sophisticated societies. The question is more how do you mitigate how many people use this mode of thinking to the detriment 0f other more useful modes in a sophisticated civilization..

I say mitigate and detriment to other modes because I don't think that this way of thinking is all bad. I feel this mode of thinking has its uses. One thing that comes to mind is that it is especially useful in emergencies when one cannot afford to take time to think something through. Indeed what we consider our more 'animal' tendencies (very unfair to animals who can be just as rational as we) are necessary for survival.

The problem comes when this emotional thinking becomes a primary mode where things aren't always an emergency. An extremely complex society demands we think things through and have relevant facts needed to support an effective decision making analysis.

One way to mitigate this phenomenon would be for our politicians to fly straight, to care about their constituencies (ALL of them, yes I'm talking to the racist politicians in our gov't). To stop lying to them about change. There are other countries whose governments actually enjoy a majority favourable view from its people). Again, this is mitigation, not eradication.

Undoubtedly, statistically I would think, many of Trumps supporters are like him, or at least his public face. Spiteful, incorrigible, mean and hateful. However, many are not. They are good people, just mad and have allowed themselves to be "seduced" by him due to their feelings of hopelessness and despair over gov't ineptitude.

There may also be this issue of "facts". Where do we get our facts from? This is a sticky question and not easily fielded. Not many of us do our own, extensive research. If you think you have a fact (that is false) and make decisions of it, depending on the fact and what you do, you could appear extremely irrational to others, but really, in the context of believing that 'fact' you are being rational.

Its almost embarrassing to have to defend against Trump. To many of us it seems like a no-brainer, literally. But we all don't work off the same 'facts'* and in the correct context. And not everyone is rational. And that irrational side is not 'abnormal' as such (at least its underpinnings). Like it or not, we have to deal, rationality doesn't come automata with the human package and neither do 'facts'.


*The activity of gathering and substantiating findings into facts, including degrees of certainty about those 'facts' is acquired just from living. However, that would be an informal science applied to the informalities of living. Here, you can be totally wrong about something, but it works. This is as opposed to the difficulty of a formalized science of critical analysis which is not acquired just from living and requires more rigorous learning as a discipline. Making effective social decisions in a complex society requires the latter come first.
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 28 Oct, 2016 02:56 pm
@catbeasy,
catbeasy wrote:

Quote:
... In my daily life, should I tell people that I am grateful to live here? Or should I actively think it?


Quote:
Yes, and yes.


Why?


As Spock might say in Star Trek, "Because it is the only logical thing to do."

If you do not agree, I do not proselytize, I only "offer" the wisdom I think I've acquired from the time I was much youonger.
 

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